Happy, Healthy, & Wealthy Therapists | Ep 20: Stop Building Income Streams You Don’t Even Want

Released: 03/27/2026

Show Notes:

In this episode, Amanda sits down with Gabrielle Juliano-Villani, LCSW, to talk about what it really looks like to build beyond the therapy room—and why more income doesn’t always mean more alignment. Gabrielle shares her journey from scaling a seven-figure group practice to realizing it no longer fit, and how selling it led to a more sustainable, creative way of working. Together, they unpack diversification, passive vs. active income, team support, and why nervous system capacity and mindset work matter just as much as strategy.

About Gabrielle Juilano-Villani:

My guest today is Gabrielle Juliano-Villani, she is a business mindset coach, consultant, and former group practice owner who helps therapists scale, sell, and thrive without burning out. After building and successfully selling her own seven-figure group practice in 2021, she made it her mission to help other entrepreneurs create sustainable, profitable businesses without sacrificing their mental health. As a licensed clinical social worker and small business administration coach,

Gabrielle brings a unique blend of clinical experience and expertise, as well as business strategy to her work. She specializes in supporting practice owners as they navigate complex systems like Medicare and Medicaid billing. Her approach combines practical business strategies with mind-body techniques, drawing from her experience as an EMDR and polyvagal-informed therapist. Based in Sarasota, Florida, Gabrielle is an international speaker and retreat leader who has been featured on NBC News, Spruce Health, and dozens of top industry podcasts. When she’s not helping practice owners transform their businesses, you’ll find her teaching Zumba, traveling the world, or reading psychological thrillers on the beach.

3 Key Takeaways:

1. Building multiple income streams can create more freedom and alignment, but more money does not automatically mean the business you build will actually fit the life you want.
2. Diversifying beyond therapy can be powerful, but it works best when it is grounded in sustainability, nervous system capacity, and support—not just strategy or hustle.
3. Sometimes the most important business move is not scaling bigger, but being honest enough to pivot away from what looks successful on paper but no longer feels right in practice.

Connect with Gabrielle:

• Websites: https://gabriellejulianovillani.com/ and https://www.medicareconsultingfortherapists.com/
• Palm Springs Retreat – May 3-7, 2026
• Instagram: @gjvconsulting

Learn more about the Happy, Healthy, & Wealthy Mastermind here!

Schedule your Discovery Call here!

Connect with Amanda:

• Follow on Instagram: @amandakbcoaching
• Check out the Amanda KB Coaching website

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Sponsors:

• This episode is sponsored by Alma – learn more here
• This episode is sponsored by Jane – use code: AMANDA2MO for a 2-month grace period

Resources & Links:

SEO for Therapists Membership

Therapy Intensives Academy

Happy, Healthy, & Wealthy Mastermind

Free Training: 3 Steps to Booking Your First Therapy Intensive

Free Guide: 3 Steps to Double Your Income

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Just a quick heads up, everything I share in this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. It’s not legal advice, financial advice, or tax advice. Every practice and every state has its own rules. So if you’re wondering how something applies to your situation, make sure to check in with an attorney, accountant, or another qualified professional who can give you guidance based on your specific circumstances.

Transcript:

Amanda (00:01)
All right, well, I am so excited to have you here today, Gabrielle.

Gabrielle (00:06)
I’m so glad we were able to squeeze it in before we both take off to go to the other side of the world.

Amanda (00:12)
⁓

I know that is coming up so soon and I am so looking forward to it and I’m already in this place of like it’s never gonna be enough time I have to go back so you’ll just have to do more retreats in New Zealand. Twist my arm!

Gabrielle (00:26)
I’m dying.

Amanda (00:31)
Well, for the audience who may not know as much about you, can you share briefly just who you are, where you are, and all the amazing things that you do?

Gabrielle (00:40)
⁓ I’m Gabrielle. I’m in the LCSW and I am based in Sarasota, Florida ⁓ from way of Denver, Colorado. That’s where I previously owned my group practice and that practice ⁓ obviously started as a private practice and we in the beginning really specialized with the Medicare population and so I scaled and grew very quickly because of my niche and then of course ended up adding.

Medicaid and some other things, scaled that to seven figures and 15 people and absolutely hated it. So I sold it in 2021 and have since pivoted into business coaching, retreats, speaking engagements. I do Medicare and Medicaid, B2B consulting as well. I’m a sound healer. I sell on Etsy, all of the things.

Amanda (01:36)
Literally all of the things. We were just joking that you’re doing two less things, but still all the things. So obviously started the private practice route, grew into more of the group practice. At what point did you decide, number one, I don’t want to do this group practicing anymore and sell everything. And then two, like, how did you start coming up with new ideas of how you wanted to spend your time?

Gabrielle (02:04)
So I think I really subconsciously felt that the group practice wasn’t right for me probably around 2020 because just like a lot of people, just felt like we really started exploding and I had hired a lot and very quickly and learned a lot of lessons. And by spring 2021, I was like, I don’t know what I’m gonna do. And I was meeting with my friend who,

is an MBA and she’s in a different industry and also ended up selling her business around the same time I did. And she was the one who mentioned that to me. So she like, you know, was kind of like my coach and mentor. And she’s like, why don’t you just sell? I was like, I didn’t think people bought like, especially like, and that point, you know, I always think of like, I think of like a merger, I’m like these like big companies, you know, so

Amanda (02:46)
Hehehe. Hehehe.

Gabrielle (02:57)
She was like, no, that happens all the time. And we ran some numbers and of course I was like, it’s not enough money. So I just kind of put that on the back burner and try delegating more and putting more people in leadership. But it just, you know, kept creeping up on me and really like every day I was just miserable and very angry and resentful. And that’s not, you know, who I am or how I want to live my life. So I was actually on a, at a therapist conference in

in July of that year and I ended up getting a phone call and they said, you know, we represent this other business and we want to acquire your practice. Give us a call back. And I did. And that’s who ended up buying my practice.

Amanda (03:44)
We love it, it’s a little easier. ⁓ Were you even like, were you marketing that you were trying to sell or someone just contacted you? don’t know where.

Gabrielle (03:47)
Yeah, just kind of.

contact me out of nowhere. Like I had been thinking about it and dreaming about like a way out and you know, the universe delivered.

Amanda (04:05)
Yes, while you were in Hawaii, how lovely.

Gabrielle (04:08)
It was, you know, it

was really like cool how that happened. And I thought it was like spam. So I wasn’t going to call them back and texting that same friend. And she was like, no, this is like how it happens in tons of industries. Like just Google them and make sure they’re legit and get on a call and just see how it goes. So that’s what I did.

Amanda (04:12)
Yeah.

Great, so you went through with that process, took care of, I’m sure, was a bunch of fun legal signing things and all of that. And then did you take much of a break before diving into whatever was next?

Gabrielle (04:39)
I kind of did. I always, and this kind of answers your other question too. I’ve just always been, mean, maybe it’s the ADHD, maybe it’s just my human design or just like me, I don’t know, but I’ve always just been somebody who’s doing a lot of things. Like I would probably consider myself a hustler. Like I always had multiple jobs going through grad school and even like when I first started my practice. And so I kind of had some stuff on the back burner.

Amanda (04:59)
You

Gabrielle (05:10)
⁓ I had already been doing trainings. I’ve been doing some consulting here and there and some like coaching as well. and I had started both of my Facebook groups by that time, but I was just so burned out and I was like, I don’t really want to talk about like group practice stuff. Like I’m so over it. So I kind of took a little bit of a break because when you sell in pretty much every case, you’re going to have to stay on for a period of time. So I did stay on for a year and that

kind of was actually healing for me because I was getting a salary and I was just kind of like chilling. I’m like, I paid time off. I had a 401k with a match. Like I’m just, it was kind of like building it up on the side so that when I got to, what was it? I guess like 20, like the end of December, 2022, I think 2023 is like when I went completely full time, but I had already kind of built up a little bit of a runway on the side.

Amanda (06:05)
Yum,

yum, yum. And so keeping very, very busy and typical ADHD nature. You were already doing lots of other things and I’ve seen like, I get your ads all the time. So I see all the very cool things that you do and they’re all very needed, especially the people who do take Medicare and Medicaid. And there are so many tough things around that. So obviously you’re helping people.

Gabrielle (06:22)
Thanks

Amanda (06:34)
not worry so much about clawbacks and feel like they can take that insurance and work with those people. So that’s lovely, like a shameless plug for you there. People go get that help if you need it. ⁓ In terms of all of the different things that you do, do you have a favorite thing or like top two or three?

Gabrielle (06:43)
you

My

favorite things are, I love making content and like in kind of the same vein, I love training and like speaking. I love doing that. And I also love hosting retreats.

Amanda (07:11)
How many have you hosted at this point?

Gabrielle (07:14)
Just me, think like four, five, something like that. But I’ve co-hosted with Patrick a couple of times. I co-hosted with a previous friend group of mine as well in Oregon. And I also have spoken at retreats and been a host at retreats and attended many, many retreats. So it feels like I have a pretty good groove.

going, although something always comes up. will say that as I’m talking about this, if that’s like, you know, if that’s like perking your ears, like, Ooh, retreats. ⁓ I mean, it does get easier as you learn, but something always happens. So, which is fine. It’s part of it. It makes it exciting.

Amanda (07:59)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

exactly. I remember Patrick, this was maybe a year ago at some point, I signed up for one of his, it was like a retreat intensive of like learn how to do retreats. And I like what he said of, you know, being a retreat host really combines this like, love organizing and planning and travel. And in that sense, too, like something will always go wrong.

like when you are coordinating travel, when you are coordinating, depending on the size of your retreat, 10 to 100 people, like something’s always gonna go wrong. That’s not the reason to not do it. Like it’s never gonna be perfect, but it can also meet a lot of your personal needs and business needs to do something fun that meets a lot of your desires too.

Gabrielle (08:50)
find that it’s like a growth edge with that too, and which is good. Like it’s good to be pushed a little bit and it’s true. Something will always happen and the best laid plans, like it doesn’t matter. Like even ⁓ in Costa Rica this past November, there was like a little miscommunication about the schedule that I had and the schedule that like the retreat center had. so…

I had spent all this time and money printing out these really beautiful agendas and they were wrong. So Mike was going, my husband was going through and changing everything. And then as we kept going, I was like, just it’s too much, like the whole thing is wrong. So then we just pivoted and we’re like, we’re just gonna write it on this cute little chalkboard every single day. I’ll take a picture, I’ll put it in the WhatsApp. We’re all in the same venue. Nobody’s going anywhere without me.

Amanda (09:39)
No.

Gabrielle (09:40)
and you

just have to laugh about it and like figure it out. Cause there’s always something.

Amanda (09:45)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. So that brings me to my question of like with all of the things that you do, obviously you have some favorites. There are some things that I think when it comes to, when I talk with therapists who want to explore things outside of therapy, we also think about like what are some, not just fun alternative streams of income, but what are some more like passive ones? So with all of the things that you do, which ones are?

more essentially like time and energy consuming versus which ones do feel like this is easier and so streamlined at this point that it feels more passive.

Gabrielle (10:20)
Yeah, I would say my things that have become really passive, which is nice. ⁓ I’ll preface this by saying there’s a lot of work to get to this point. I mean, the digital templates and the courses, those just, they just sell because I, know, the way that everything has been built and the funnels and the marketing and the email sequences, like that just kind of happens. It’s, not enough for me to like,

Amanda (10:28)
Yes.

Gabrielle (10:46)
pay all of my bills, but it’s something and I usually structure it in a way that I promote those things through emails, like when I’m traveling so that I am still making money when I’m traveling. those things are more passive. ⁓ Sometimes like affiliate marketing can be passive as well and like brand stuff kind of depending on the situation. The things that take a lot of

time and effort are like I do basically coaching intensive. So like VIP days, cause that’s my time where I’m sitting with somebody for four hours trainings, depending on how long they are and retreats, retreats and like in-person events. I do love, but it is a big lift and you are, I’m on the whole time. So when I’m in Costa Rica with people for a week, like even if we’re not doing retreat stuff, like I’m still

in that space with those people. And I’m very mindful of that in a good way. And also just in a way to, to protect my energy because I am introverted and I’m very sensitive and I know that I need a lot of space and decompression in down.

Amanda (12:00)
Yeah, which I think is something I’ve appreciated hearing you say explicitly on your retreats I’ve gone on is, you know, giving yourself that permission of even though ultimately in some ways it can feel like a vacation, like we were in Belize together, like it felt very beautiful on vacation, like it is also still energy intensive. And I know you were like, yeah, I’m going to shut down the day after this and just be in a room by myself in the dark because…

Yeah, like when you do something that takes a lot of work, even if you love it, it is still taking a lot of work. And so you do need to protect your time, even if this isn’t therapy, right? It is still something that takes a lot of your energy.

Gabrielle (12:40)
Yeah. And I think that’s important to hear from like both perspectives because I’ve also had people tell me when they look at like the retreat itineraries and stuff, they’ll be like, there’s so much like free time. Like, what am I paying for? And I’m like, just wait, just wait when you are in it. And even in Costa Rica, I had a ton of downtime. It still wasn’t enough. Like, and that’s fine. Like people were like, I’m going to sleep in. I feel very tired. I don’t want to come to like, you know, one night we had like a

Amanda (12:54)
Ha

Gabrielle (13:09)
⁓ drum circle at the fire and a couple of people were like, I’m just going to bed. And like, that is absolutely fine. Like that’s what this is about is to protect your energy. And that’s what also makes retreats so special is like that you’re able to do that in a place where you are like cared for and supported and somebody cooks you a nice meal and you don’t have to do any dishes and then just go to sleep. ⁓

Amanda (13:30)
It’s

fantastic. I love it. So yeah, there’s very, there’s time intensive things you can do that are still very, very rewarding. And to your point to around like passivity of income, like I 100 % agree with, there are ways for it to feel more passive, but it takes a lot of work on the front end too, with building out funnels and sequences and all that fun stuff. And

Gabrielle (13:34)
Exactly. ⁓

Amanda (13:59)
I know you too, and you and I are very much on the same page of like, we don’t do that ourselves. we, our time is precious. And so the value of team support in building out the funnels and the sequences and the PDFs and courses and stuff like that. Did you ever struggle with starting to hire out? Cause I know so many people, myself included felt like, no, I have to spend money without making money yet. So did you also struggle with that and what’d you do about it?

Gabrielle (14:28)
I did. And when I first started, the world was a little bit different and we didn’t have chat GPT. And I also had a lot of time because I was just still building up this business. So I did put more of my time and I put a lot of time into marketing and building up my Facebook groups at that point too and learning. then as I got busier, I hired, I had a VA from the beginning. ⁓

and I liked them, but it just wasn’t enough. And I felt like as I was growing, I was like, I need more. I need the next step. And it was hard because a lot of people in my circle were not in the same place as me, or they were like still, you know.

focusing on therapy side and like coaching was just kind of like, you know, a side hustle type of thing. Whereas I’m like, this is my business. This is like my livelihood and I need help building this up. So I actually was really struggling. First thing I did was I got into an ads membership, which actually ended up being like even more confusing and stressful. And

in that membership, I was working with a copywriter and I was like, okay, I think I need a copywriter like to help me with my emails. Cause I had really worked on building up my email list too. She was super expensive as copywriters are or were. I, ⁓ so I couldn’t use her and I found another copywriter who’s actually also a therapist. And then I met with her and I was telling her about my business and she was like, how are you doing all of this? And I was like, I’m getting really burnt out.

ready and I’m like starting to like see the signs of the past coming. I need help. And she was like, you don’t need a copywriter. You need an OBM. And I was like, what’s that? And then when she needed it to me, I was like, that’s exactly what I need. was like, that’s what I was trying to figure out. I didn’t know what the word was. I don’t know where to find one. And then she gave me this directory that you’ve probably seen me share because I’m obsessed with it and I’m not sponsored by them at all.

Amanda (16:18)
Ha ha ha ha.

Gabrielle (16:35)
She gave me this directory that was life-changing. It’s where I found my OBM and other VA is and then Honestly since that happened that’s really like the shift because then I had so much time Left where I could do things that I liked doing like I say this a lot. I fucking hate Canva I know a lot of people they’re like I love it. I get to be creative. It pisses me the fuck off. It’s not for me

Amanda (16:54)
Hahaha

Uh-huh-huh-huh.

Gabrielle (17:01)
I just, my brain doesn’t work that way. get super frustrated. It never looks wanted to look. can’t figure out the formatting. So now I literally never go into Canva unless I’m pulling up a presentation that’s already been made for me for training. So like taking off all that stuff. And then that gave me more space to do more things that bring money into my business and also make me happy. like now

Amanda (17:05)
Hmm

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Gabrielle (17:27)
Like, you know, you see my ads, you see like the free webinars and things that I do. And I’m able to do that because I have Christina on the back end. And then, you know, from there, I, ⁓ when I first hired her, I still had the ads people, the ads membership. got rid of that, hired an ads person that was bringing in more things. So then I was able to hire a copywriter and we hired a second VA and then social media. like because of

her really, I’ve been able to do so much and it was a huge expense and a lot of other like therapist coaches, even that I was talking to at that time didn’t do that. And they have like multi six figure businesses. And it was shocking to me that I was like, you guys are doing all this on the backend yourself. Like I’m not doing that shit. I want to be the CEO. I want to be the visionary. I don’t want to be scheduling emails. So that’s my very long tangent answer.

Amanda (18:21)
Haha

Gabrielle (18:23)
I’m very passionate about that. As you know.

Amanda (18:27)
100%, yes, yes, because yeah, think like I 100 % get it. I’m very much a person where it’s like, not at all cost. If I don’t have to spend money, I don’t want to because there are things I will spend on. I’m like, one of my friends said the phrase, bougie on a budget. And I was like, I love that. Yes, I am bougie on a budget. I will figure out where to save money, but also I want to spend it on nice things too. So I’m mindful about where I invest and team support 100%.

is worth it to me. And the more I invest in team, the more I do bring in revenue wise. And like, yes, it does mean I have to account for what are my revenue goals, knowing I pay so much for teams and ad and stuff like that, but it’s way more worth it than me working on going into Canva and scheduling emails and all of the honestly shit that just takes up so much energy.

Gabrielle (19:21)
And I think like, you know, and I know you talk a lot about this too, but I think in the therapy world, it’s because we’re not like business oriented generally, like we don’t think about these things. And so it’s more about like, how can I just like bootstrap and do it myself? And I even have like people come to me and they’re like, wow, how do you do all these things? I’m like, it’s not me sitting back there writing the emails.

I don’t do that anymore. They’re written in my voice and I read them and I make sure that it’s something that I want to say. And I meet with my copywriter once a month and, you know, kind of brain dump on her and she takes that and writes it. But I just I delegate a ton and I’m I would wish I could do more. But bougie on a budget, we’re not quite there yet. Like my.

I have to protect my nervous system and I know that about myself and I’ve done a ton of work around that. And I know that things that take me a long time and are tedious and frustrating. I don’t, I don’t need to be doing that. I can have somebody else do it for me and I can focus on my zone of genius.

Amanda (20:29)
because it helps you show up better in the things that you are actually trying to do. Like the live support that you give and offer, you do that better when you’re not thinking about, no, I forgot to schedule that email or I have to design this freebie afterwards or this tech thing fell through the cracks or something like that. Like in some ways too, I think investing in team support, it’s also not just about the money that you can bring in. It’s also about like,

Gabrielle (20:48)
⁓ Like

Amanda (20:58)
You do deserve to not have to do everything and that can be a worthwhile expense too. Like I have literally later today, I have a cleaner coming who’s going to just like help clean my place for like three hours. And I’m like, I could do that. I feel weird about paying to do it, but I don’t have to do it. And that is saving me time and energy. And that a hundred percent is worth it to me.

Gabrielle (21:21)
Same. We have cleaner that comes every other week. And I’m like, that is great because I don’t want to spend my time doing that. I could, but I don’t want to. And I think that is really like just thinking again, like about entrepreneurship or whatever. Like the time freedom is the biggest success to me because my time is just so valuable. I’ll also say, and people always get like, I shouldn’t say triggered, but some people really surprised by this.

Biggest thing I did last May was I finally handed off my emails to my VA and that was truly life changing. I now get like maybe on a really busy day, 10 emails, but everything gets forwarded to like our admin email box and she manages all of that. And then if there’s anything I need to respond to, she just forwards it to me. And so I also don’t have to see like

dumb shit that I don’t need to be involved in. It gets handled and I don’t even know about it.

Amanda (22:22)
Mm-hmm, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Exactly, yes, yeah. I think that is, you know, there’s a lot of pros that you and I are talking about, diversifying your income and having all these alternative revenue streams. And there is a lot of, you know, I have a membership and I have a course as well. And there’s always gonna be tech and like admin support things that people are needing. Like you do need even more support managing your inbox, otherwise.

Like I don’t want to know when someone defaulted on a payment. I just want to trust that like you’re taking care of it. I don’t want to know that someone’s PDF link isn’t opening. I just need to know you’re taking care of it. Like we don’t need, especially being ADHD, we don’t need more tabs open in our brain. And so yeah, just time and energy and emotional freedom and all that stuff. So please, if you are listening to this and considering having lots of things that you do,

Gabrielle (22:59)
Yes.

Exactly.

Amanda (23:20)
hire a team, is so, worth it in so many ways.

Gabrielle (23:23)
It really is. And it’s funny, both of those things happened to me this week and like people not being able to like log into their courses, but I just, don’t know about it. It’s just happens behind the scenes and it is not my problem. So I just have to show up to what I need to show up to.

Amanda (23:38)
Exactly. Yes.

Yes. Yeah. I think to kind of a little bit of what we were talking about is there’s this equivalent of like, you know, the whole grad school never prepared us for running a business part. Like it’s also the same thing in these other areas of business of some people might’ve heard us say funnel and email sequences and like gotten all cross-eyed of like, what is that? What does that mean? I had no idea about it either until I started working with

Do you know, I always get confused, is OPM, operations business manager, online business manager, I don’t know what it stands for.

Gabrielle (24:15)
Like online business manager, but they are operations and my, ⁓ OBM Christina, she refers to herself as like an integrator. And that’s what she does. Sheila and a couple other things, but she does a lot for me, but she does a lot of like integration and like building the stuff on the back end. Yeah.

Amanda (24:31)
Yeah,

yeah, 100%, which again, there were so many things I didn’t even know I could automate or integrate or you don’t know what you don’t know. And I think for people who are looking to launch a course, a coaching program, do retreats, like there’s always gonna be information that we’re missing. And if you have someone you’re reaching out to support with, whether they’re on your team, whether you do a coaching intensive, just getting some information can be super helpful.

Gabrielle (24:59)
Yeah, this past weekend I did like a ⁓ weekend intensive about basically this, like adding income streams. And that was one of the things that we talked about was like, you need to start learning and understanding that like now you’re really running an online business to like separating yourself. And maybe that’s not the best way to think of it, but that’s kind of how I think of it is like the therapy is like one way and different strategies. And like, this is an online.

business. And so you’re going to need the supports to be able to do all of those things. Like we just talked about, like, those are the things that came up, like, how do you send emails? How do you get people’s emails? Where do you put them? What happens when people buy a course? Like, then what then do you just send them a confirmation and that’s it? Like we talked about all of those things that you don’t really think about, right? If you’ve never done this before, and that’s fine.

⁓ so hopefully, you know, you’re learning a lot by listening to this podcast because she is really good at, ⁓ I feel like you do a really good job of talking a lot about the backend, which I think is important.

Amanda (26:08)
Yes. Yeah. Because I think to this point too, like you said, there is a lot that goes on behind the scenes, whether it’s you to start out with initially or eventually, hopefully you hire that out to your team. But I think that there is a totally different way to run a therapy business and an online business. And to this point too of like when the online business is your side business, you literally cannot run it.

like it is your sole business. Like you saying like you were done with a therapy business and now you could go all in into the coaching and courses and stuff like that. You’re also gonna be able to show up a lot differently with your time, your energy, your capacity. Whereas people who are trying to do both, it is legitimately harder to split your time. Like I at this point in my therapy practice, I maybe, I saw zero therapy clients this week, but I had an intensive over the weekend. And I think I had like,

or three hour long appointments. So my schedule still shifts a lot because I still, at least for now, for the time being, I still want to be very active in my therapy practice. But it does also make it harder to show up the way someone else can fully show up when their online business is their sole business. And I think that’s just so helpful to remember because we all play the comparison game of like, again, every time I see I’m like,

Gabrielle (27:16)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Amanda (27:33)
Gabrielle’s now doing a summit. Gabrielle’s doing another retreat. I’m like, she’s doing all the things. Why am I not doing all the things? ⁓ right. Cause I’m running two businesses that both take unique time, unique energy. And it’s okay that I don’t show up in the same way as someone out there, even though like I admire the hell out of your hustle and how much I see all your stuff.

Gabrielle (27:35)
You scared the shit me.

thank you because Gabrielle is doing everything very afraid and she is her ass on the line for a lot of money for some. So just well also that there’s always like another side to it. And and it’s true too when I was like trying to do other things but still seeing a lot of clients. It was also hard with like the scheduling and just like the tasks switching because sometimes it would be like how where can I fit in this like training?

Amanda (27:57)
You

You

Gabrielle (28:21)
when all of my clients are in the same spot every single week. And again, I was still seeing a lot of clients at that point, but I remember like that and being like, okay, I could maybe see like a coaching client here. And I’m talking about like scaling into a group practice. And then the next hour I’m like doing EMDR. I’m like, this is like, it’s it’s too much for me. So you do have to remember that that, you know, I don’t know if this is the best thing to say.

Amanda (28:39)
Ha ha ha ha ha

Gabrielle (28:49)
I I’m going to say it like a lot of it is smoke and mirrors. Okay. Like when you compare yourself to people online, which I do all the time, and then like you see what they’re going through, like you will feel validated.

Amanda (29:03)
Yes, yes, 100%. Like I had Patrick on, how will this work timing wise? Maybe your episodes will be like six weeks apart or something like that. But I had him recently and we were talking about the whole doubt yourself, do it anyway mentality. And I told him, I was like, you probably don’t know how much you’ve actually changed my life with that because I’m a very anxious, scared person who was grown up being taught, you know.

Gabrielle (29:12)
Thank you.

Amanda (29:30)
take up so much space and just like be successful, but you know, be cautious. And so I do a lot of things in my therapy and in my coaching business where like, I’m still terrified every time. I don’t know if this is going to work out. I feel like a nuisance every time I’m doing a week long launch and I’m all up in people’s email boxes. I’m like, I’m going to get unsubscribed and people are going to get mad at me. But like I do those things anyway, because number one, it’s business. And number two, like

it’s ultimately building what I want to have in my life. And I’m not, I’m so tired of waiting to try to be perfect at something and to try to, when I feel confident, when I feel ready, it’s just like, nah, I’ll just do it now. And if there’s a typo in the email, fuck it, it’s fine. And it’s okay if people do unsubscribe and it’s all good. Like you have to do it.

Gabrielle (30:18)
It happened. Yeah.

You just have to do it. And I will also tell you, very similarly, I like didn’t come from a family of entrepreneurs. I got the messaging, same thing, like get a stable job. Like even when I started my private practice, the response was like, why would you do that? You have this great job with great benefits. Like what are you doing? And obviously I’ve come very far away from that. And like I used to

cry if I was late to school because I was afraid that everybody was going to look at me. And I used to fake sick if I had to present in front of the class. I failed public speaking in college twice. And I still get scared when I do all of those things. And my speaking coach, Ron, who’s also a really good friend of mine, gets so annoyed when I say this, what am I about to say? Because I’m always like, I’m not special. The only difference between me and whoever is like, I’m just doing it.

I just put it out there and I do it. And sometimes it feels like a failure, but I find that I don’t even think of it as a failure anymore. I’m just like, it was a learning lesson. Like that didn’t work. And I always still got something really good out of it anyway. Like even my, this intensive, I was just talking about last weekend, we wanted to have 16 people sign up and we have five. And I was like, okay, these five people are going to get an amazing weekend. And they did.

And then three of them signed up for longer term coaching, is, which is amazing. Cause I’m like, now I get to help you actually build out the thing that we didn’t have time to do this weekend. And I also don’t know how I thought I was going to like coach 16 people because we didn’t even have enough time for five people. So it ended up working out just like absolutely perfectly. And I’m like, that’s the way it was meant to be. it’s fine. So

Amanda (32:11)
I mean, again, it’s that comparison game.

We feel like I have to have this certain number. I want it to look shiny and fantastic, but it’s not always about how it looks on outside. Like, yeah, I just, I was filling up my mastermind in the past month and I had a maximum of eight spots available. I filled seven of them, which is still amazing, but my mind goes, but I didn’t sell it out. And my coach was like, you had seven people sign up for a mastermind and this is only your second time launching it?

that’s still a fucking win, please go celebrate it. Like we are always going to have our big shiny goals and sometimes you’re gonna meet them. Sometimes you’re gonna exceed them. Sometimes you fall a little bit short, but there is always learning lessons in it. Cause I had to take my step back of like, it’s not, you know, it’s not my systems that weren’t in place. It’s not that I didn’t market it enough. It’s not that, you know, that I didn’t get this one extra person, right? Like my brain will go into problem solving mode as opposed to like,

Gabrielle (32:43)
What the hell?

Amanda (33:11)
it was also January and I was renewing my licenses and it’s tax time and like there’s so much other stuff going on that I just felt super scattered and sure maybe didn’t market as much as I could have. And yet I still got seven out of eight spots filled. So to be kinder and gentler with ourselves of you still did the thing and something still worked and you you got some longer term clients out of it. So do it scared, do it when it’s not perfect and ready and know that like

Gabrielle (33:35)
Yeah.

Amanda (33:39)
Good things will still come, whether it’s a learning lesson or business.

Gabrielle (33:43)
we do tend to be very hard on ourselves. And I’m trying to get better about that too, because I’m always like, ugh, I thought this would be easier and no one’s going to sign up, blah, blah, blah. And then people are like, do you know that you literally went to eight countries last year and got paid and hosted all of your retreats sold out? And I’m like, I know, but still.

Amanda (33:51)
You

Haha

Gabrielle (34:07)
because it’s so stressful, but that’s just, you know, part of the plan, I guess. And again, just like being gentler and more compassionate and it’s fine. Like it always works out how it needs to work out. And like those seven people are the seven people who are going to show up and who were meant to be there anyway, is how I always think about it too.

Amanda (34:28)
Yes, yeah, exactly. I I’m such at a place in the values of my business where I care so much more about fit and value alignment than I do about maximizing the pretty number that like, I sold out, I made a XK month or something. Those are benefits, that feels good too, but my nervous system, my body needs to learn a lot more in terms of what, like safety, comfort, stability and confidence.

feel like as opposed to what I think it’s supposed to look like.

Gabrielle (35:00)
That is like the biggest undoing that I feel like I’ve been working on forever, but it has also been coming up a lot for me for the past year. So, I’ll tell you.

Amanda (35:09)
Yes. Mm-hmm.

Yes. Which is why I’m very excited actually to go to this retreat you are hosting in May. Number one, it’s in Palm Springs and that you and I have already been there together for different purposes. But talk a little bit about the focus of that retreat and who it might be a good fit for.

Gabrielle (35:30)
So ⁓ I’m hosting that with my friend Jen, also you’ve been on her ⁓ retreats and conferences before as well. And in Scotland, actually, before the summit started, we were getting drinks at a bar. And she was like, we should do a retreat for people who are just kind of more interested in like kind of alternative practices. One might call woo woo. And yeah.

Amanda (35:58)
You

Gabrielle (36:00)
Why not? Like I have fully leaned into all of that and I don’t really see anybody else doing like a conference for this. So we just, she literally had her notes app at this bar in Scotland and we were like, who would speak about this? Who would speak about this? And we just started putting it together and ⁓ came up with an amazing list. I am talking about sound healing. We have breath work, human design, Reiki, inner child healing, Tarot, expressive arts.

how to talk about this all ethically in your notes if you’re worried about that. And also, I took an intuitive practitioner certification, which really helped me. did level one and level two with ⁓ Laurie Lipton, who’s a shamanic medium and a psychologist, and she’s speaking. So that feels very fulfilling to me that like one of my mentors will be there too. So we put this together really for people who therapists, healers, coaches who want to integrate.

this into their work if you’re feeling called to, but you’re not sure how, if you’re just kind of curious or interested about it. But I know that, ⁓ I think a lot of us right now that intuition comes up all the time in therapy and anytime you’re like, Hmm, maybe I should ask this question. That’s your intuition. And so we really wanted to just expand on that and give a safe place for people, ⁓ to learn and get continuing education and

You know, we do have it kind of like summit retreat style. So like learning is in the morning and then in the afternoon you can get readings with our speakers and some of our vendors and we went back and forth forever on where the location was going to be and Palm Springs is just it’s definitely got a vibe there. The hotel that we’re hosting it at is nestled like right in the mountains.

room, the conference room, which it’s not really a conference room, but where we’re hosting the trainings is all glass that we can open up and you’ll be looking out at the mountains and the palm trees. So, I mean, can’t really think of a better place to integrate and learn about these things and have a little trip, get some continuing education, write it off. The best.

Amanda (38:12)
Mm-hmm. My favorite. Uh-huh. Yeah. And

I wanted to make that segue, not just to, again, shamelessly plug that because I will see you there. So please, if you’re listening, come join us and have fun at Palm Springs. But I think it is so… I can talk about business strategy all day long, but we know this as therapists. We know things all the time. We’re very intelligent people. We can get something if we know to do it.

but so much more often it is the mindset blocks. It is any like young child trauma. It is financial trauma. There is so many other things that are in our body and our brain that don’t even let us move on the business strategy. And so I do think there’s something to be said for like whether you do retreat like experience like this in Palm Springs, whether it’s something you integrate into your own therapy that you are hopefully receiving.

I think there is just more power to balancing not just the logistical brain based stuff, but also listening to your body and helping that heal as well so that you can do things afraid, do things uncomfortable, be willing to take risks and see the really fucking cool things that can come out of it.

Gabrielle (39:29)
Exactly. And that’s, I say that all the time too. And a lot of people come to me, right? I’m probably you too, where they’re like, I want to do all of this and it’s coming. There’s clearly a fight or flight energy and it’s very chaotic or they’ll be like, I did this. It didn’t work. I did this. have all these 20 different things. And I’m like, yes, I also have 20 different things, but I started with one. Like if you are doing all of these things out of fear and desperation,

they will be chaotic and they won’t land and it won’t work because you have to, you know, sorry to bring up polyvagal, you know, it’s my fave, but you gotta be in your ventral vagal space. You gotta be regulated so that your executive functioning or dysfunctioning, your logical reasoning is all online because those things support you. And that’s where you make good.

decisions and you’re not impulsive about just like hiring some random person and then you get burned, right? Like I hear that all the time, which can still happen from a place of regulation, but I do see that a lot when people are just like, whatever, I just need help. And this is the first person and they were cheap and I’m just going to take them. Right. And so it’s so extremely important because you can’t take in that strategy and make those shifts. Like when you are just 100 % just totally in the fear, like, yes, we, we

work through fear and we move through it, but there is a time and a place and like a strategy even behind that too. And it’s super important for you to just do that inner work because those things do come up. Lots of inner child stuff is going to come up as you move into a new space. We both know that for sure.

Amanda (41:09)
Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Yes. ⁓

my therapist has job security for me, especially. And so does my coach, quite honestly, because she’s also very talented with addressing the mindset stuff and helping me to discern what is actually the problem here. Is it a marketing problem or is it ⁓ Amanda has this fear or anxiety about this kind of problem, which does legitimately help me make better business decisions as well as just feel better in my day-to-day life to know.

what is the actual problem here. And it’s usually, I need more healing. ⁓ shit, I guess I do work on that more.

Gabrielle (41:45)
Why

is this coming up once again?

Amanda (41:48)
Mm-hmm, yes. Well, clearly you and I can chat all day, but I to be respectful of your time because you’ve got lots of fun stuff to do. So tell people where is the best way to get in contact with you. Obviously we’ll pull all your information, including the link to the Palm Springs retreats in the show notes, but where can people most easily find you and connect with you?

Gabrielle (41:54)
you

I am on Instagram at G J V consulting and I’m very easy to find because of my name. So that is my website. That is tick tock YouTube, Facebook, LinkedIn, Gabrielle, Giuliano, Elani. And if you do need help with Medicare or Medicaid, it’s Medicare consulting for therapists.com.

Amanda (42:29)
Thanks so much for sharing all your time and all your good energy today and we will see each other in New Zealand so, soon.

Gabrielle (42:37)
Thanks so much for having

me, this was amazing.

Amanda (42:40)
Thank you so much.