Happy, Healthy, & Wealthy Therapists | Ep 13: Therapy From an RV: Creating a Practice That Fits Your Life

Released: 02/06/2026

Show Notes:

In this episode, Liz Zhou shares her journey as a therapist specializing in neurodivergent and highly sensitive individuals. She discusses the balance between her therapy practice, coaching, and website projects, emphasizing the importance of the intensive therapy model for deeper client engagement. Liz highlights the significance of accessibility in therapy, the challenges of navigating online and in-person sessions, and the impact of her viral success on social media. The discussion also covers sustainable marketing practices, the future of therapy, and the importance of authenticity in therapeutic relationships.

About Liz Zhou:

Liz Zhou is a neurodivergent therapist of color. She helps highly sensitive neurodivergent adults and couples heal their nervous systems and connect with their authentic selves. Her specialties include brain spotting, EMDR, IFS, psychedelic integration, and nervous system intensives, deep dive accelerated therapy. When Liz isn’t meeting with clients, she’s building delightful websites for fellow therapists and coaches so they can connect with their ideal clients and share their unique gifts with the world.

3 Key Takeaways:

1. Intensives aren’t a trend—they’re an autonomy-based option that can support deeper work (especially for neurodivergent processing styles) while honoring the therapist’s capacity and sustainability.
2. SEO gave Liz “steady old friend” marketing that kept bringing aligned clients even when she stepped back from Instagram—while social media served best as a portfolio/connector, not the primary engine.
3. Accessibility isn’t only about sliding scale—it can also look like free, high-quality psychoeducation (blogs/newsletters/videos), boundaries, and building a practice that supports the therapist’s life so they can show up well.

Connect with Amanda:

• Follow on Instagram: @amandakbcoaching
• Check out the Amanda KB Coaching website

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Sponsors:

• This episode is sponsored by Alma – learn more here
• This episode is sponsored by Jane – use code: AMANDA2MO for a 2-month grace period

Resources & Links:

SEO for Therapists Membership

Therapy Intensives Academy

Happy, Healthy, & Wealthy Mastermind

Free Training: 3 Steps to Booking Your First Therapy Intensive

Free Guide: 3 Steps to Double Your Income

SEO Freebie

Just a quick heads up, everything I share in this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. It’s not legal advice, financial advice, or tax advice. Every practice and every state has its own rules. So if you’re wondering how something applies to your situation, make sure to check in with an attorney, accountant, or another qualified professional who can give you guidance based on your specific circumstances.

Transcript:

Amanda (00:03)
Well, hi Liz. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to come join me on the podcast.

Liz Zhou (00:09)
Thank you so much. I’m really, really happy to be here.

Amanda (00:12)
Yeah, I was excited when you reached out, essentially just asking to be on it, because I think that’s one of the best ways to market ourselves, to connect with other therapists. So I’m always down for reconnecting because you and I worked together a couple years ago at this point. It was like 2023 into 2024. So we’ve been working together. So I would love if you could just introduce yourself to people who are listening, people who don’t know you and all the wonderful work that you do, because there’s a lot you do.

What do you want to share about yourself?

Liz Zhou (00:43)
Yeah, so I’m Liz Joe. I go by she her pronouns and I’d say

Most important to share here is that I’m a therapist in private practice. I specialize in working with neurodivergent and highly sensitive adults and couples and my practice is called Seasons of Growth Counseling. ⁓ I do some coaching work as well for folks who are outside of my state of licensure in Colorado through my other LLC and then I also occasionally do website projects for therapists who might want some help with their marketing or messaging as well.

Amanda (01:21)
Consistently, feel like both in the time that we were working together and since we’ve worked together, so many people go to your website and they’re like, it’s beautiful and it looks so good and your copy is just, I love it. So it makes so much sense that now that’s also a way that you are helping other people is helping with the design and copywriting because you just kept getting so many compliments about it.

Liz Zhou (01:43)
Yeah, yeah, thank you so much. was definitely noticing it was getting positive attention and then when I reached a point where I didn’t have any more pages to write for my own website, but I still had energy to, really liked the creativity of website work. I was like, hey, you therapist friends, do you want me to do yours? So it all makes sense.

Amanda (02:00)
Mm-hmm, yes.

Yeah, exactly. How is that going to balance your therapy practice, some of the coaching clients you have, as well as this additional work? Like, talk a little bit about what life looks like these days.

Liz Zhou (02:15)
Yeah, so I’d say I’m primarily in my therapy and coaching practice on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays. And I see maybe up to 12 weekly clients per week. And then I’ll do one to three intensives per month. And so that’s what the clinical and coaching work looks like.

I might do 15 hours tops per week for that because that’s the edge of my capacity for holding space in a synchronous capacity. And then for the website projects that is in the past year has been taking up a smaller percentage of my time. I’m looking into this year if it might take up some more, but that’s something I’ll do mostly on Mondays and Fridays when I’m not in sessions or kind of the edges of my day when I’m not seeing clients.

Amanda (02:47)
Totally.

Yeah, and we were chatting a little bit before we started the recording about how you’re living a very fun lifestyle these days. So, yeah.

Liz Zhou (03:13)
Yeah, yes.

And I feel like that really has informed how I’ve built out the businesses and my…

And really needing my businesses to be responsive to my life. So I, you know, used to live in an apartment in Colorado and do the renting thing with my partner. And then this past year we decided we wanted to try something different. So we actually ended up getting an RV, a fifth wheel specifically, and hitting the road. And so now we are living a very nomadic lifestyle. We started in the upper peninsula of Michigan, and then we drove the RV down to New

Mexico and now we are in Taos for the next few months and just getting to enjoy some places that we might not be able to experience if we weren’t in the RV. yeah. And I run my practice from the little office in the back of the RV. That closes so my cats can’t get it and it feels very cozy and like this cave where I can work.

Amanda (04:03)
Mm-hmm, yeah.

Hahaha

Mm.

Yeah, I love that. I love that you are balancing both things that you’re very excited about and passionate about business wise, but also now doing things that are very exciting and fulfilling in your personal life. And I think that really speaks to how intentional you’ve been with your business. Like I know even when we first met, so you were a pre-licensed clinician, you were also a VA doing some work for someone else while you were building up your therapy practice and you were kind of in this place of

Like how do I balance and what do I let go and how do I build up my practice in the way that I want? So what initially drew you to the intensive model and specifically as a pre-licensed therapist, because I hear a lot of therapists who don’t have their license yet struggle with like, I’m not allowed to do that. I have to wait till I’m licensed. So do you remember what that part of kind of like your personal and professional journey were like?

Liz Zhou (05:07)
Yes.

Yes, I love that question. And especially the fact that I did start this business journey pre licensed. So I do remember that at the end of 2023 is when I was starting to see some of your posts actually on Facebook about here’s an intensive, a program that’ll teach you how to do intensives. Here’s I thought your reels were so relatable and just great how you’re talking about actually therapists can make a good living. And why don’t we imagine a good life for ourselves? Why is why is the industry

Amanda (05:25)
Mm-hmm.

Liz Zhou (05:41)
norm to just give endlessly, or at least that’s the story, like my parts have gotten. So I was really drawn to that idea that I could be working

Amanda (05:45)
Yes.

Liz Zhou (05:55)
hours, but that the hours could be utilized in a different way that actually brought more value and impact to the client and also was more financially sustainable or abundant for me as a practitioner. And so I also want to name that I come from a background of working in retreat settings and like plant medicine work before I ever did grad school to become a therapist. I was a translator at a plant medicine center in Peru.

So that already is an intensive model of healing because, for example, a plant medicine ceremony is four to eight hours. And so already that’s a chunk of time for concentrated processing and healing. I wasn’t planning to bring plant medicines to my practice, but I did move on the modalities I was trained in, which at the time were EMDR and then some IFS were very adaptable to an intensive model and may actually work better for an intensive model.

Amanda (06:28)
Yes.

Yeah.

Sure.

Mm-hmm.

Liz Zhou (06:54)
was finding that 50 minute sessions felt a bit short for some of my clients. So I’d say that’s what initially drew me. can share more, but I’ll just check if if I’m answering the question on track. Yeah.

Amanda (07:06)
Yeah, yeah,

especially because I always tend to ask like five questions in one. So yeah, this aspect of you were already kind of doing something similar. You saw the power of it. You were looking at what you were trained in and that the fact that it would expand pretty well into just these extended sessions.

Liz Zhou (07:11)
Yeah.

Yes, yes. Yeah, and another piece of this is I had started my private practice earlier in 2023, right out of grad school, right out of my internship. And I was able to segue into private practice a bit easier than other folks do in the sense that I took my insurance clients from my internship site into my practice, and I was able to build their insurance through the internship agency. And that was part of the

the way that that agency worked. And so that gave me a foundation of clients. When I first started my private practice LLC, I didn’t notice that what I was getting paid per session via insurance plus the cut that was taken via the agency was simply not enough for me and my needs and my wants and the math just was not math thing. And so I noticed that within a few months and it, it made me realize pretty early in my business journey that I, this

I would need to figure something out that was different than the default model that was handed to me. So again, the intensives and just the emphasis that, you know, the fee structure of that can look different and in a more…

in a way that makes sense for the clinician and the time and capacity and energy they’re putting into that model. And then also what I liked about your program, once I joined it in, I think December, 2023, is that it was also emphasizing how to raise rates for the weekly sessions as well. And so that felt really important because when I would get a private pay client, I would be charging them maybe 100 or 150 per hour.

in my first year and that also turned out to be not enough. So then the program was really helping me understand the mindset and the logistics of also raising the rates. So I eventually raised them to more of the 225, 275 range across several months, but that was important as well. The overall financial, holistic financial health of the practice and not just intensives.

Amanda (09:03)
Mm-hmm.

Yes, exactly. Because the intensive model is great for both of the things you said of kind of helping you increase your revenue, helping you work in a way that’s more sustainable. But it is also more worth it to the clients I found. I’ve never had an intensive client who said like, this wasn’t worth it or I felt like I wasted money. People are like, oh, no wonder you charge this much for this. Like, this is amazing. So I think, like you said, there’s a lot of mindset stuff when it comes to the intensives.

Liz Zhou (09:45)
Yes. Yes.

Amanda (09:51)
But that also translates over into the weekly sessions too, around how much can or should we charge per week. ⁓ And for you, knowing kind of like your clientele, people that you try to reach, especially you as a woman of color working with other clients of color, what have you thought about with like the whole accessibility conversation when it comes to fee setting?

Liz Zhou (10:16)
Yeah, such a big conversation and I see how it can get so, it go in so many directions, let’s just say. So yeah, yeah, so as a clinician, I, I’m

Amanda (10:19)
⁓ huh.

Yes.

Liz Zhou (10:29)
pretty clear and even public about how I’m woman of color, I’m neurodivergent, different identities and lived experiences that inform the work. And then that in turn attracts clients who have some of those shared lived experiences. And I really love that. And so in terms of accessibility, I think it can look so many ways. One can look like,

like an individual clinician could implement a sliding scale and based on their own capacity and the financial math of their life could choose to set rates that makes sense and that can offer accessibility in that way. And then I also think about accessibility in terms of, well, I’m also making information available. I created this Instagram account that shares a lot of free psycho education in a really digestible way and an entertaining way. I have a YouTube that has a

much smaller audience, but that’s also a way I share information. I used to blog every single week and very high quality niche content about high sensitivity, neurodivergence, psychedelic integration. And so those blogs get read every month. The Instagram, you know, it’s gotten a lot of people have interacted with that. The YouTube, right? I now have a weekly email newsletter that I sent. So there are ways that my work is accessible and reaches people even beyond whether I can sit with them in a Zoom room for one hour.

So, and I think that’s a nice way to think about, you know, it doesn’t always have to look like I’m giving this hour of my time.

Amanda (12:03)
Yeah, I love that perspective because I think that’s what a lot of people boil the accessibility down to is like, well, how can people be in your Zoom room or in your physical room? Like how do they afford it is where I hear mostly the conversation. But like you’re saying, there is this aspect of the more you have made yourself not only just like literally available to write these blogs, do these videos and reels and stuff like that, but you’re also more mentally capable.

of doing that. It’s not burning you out to do that. You’re not feeling like, have to do this, I should do this. You’re doing it from a place of like, I can do it. And this is one way to share with people. And I think there’s this other layer of, you know, Westernized medicine anyway, feels like therapy is the only way to learn and to heal and to do the work. But I don’t think that’s necessarily true. Like having more information out there, people who

look like you, people who connect with you, who can hear from you, like that can be healing in and of itself. And so there’s so many different, we can go down a whole separate rabbit hole around accessibility and what that means, but yeah, I just appreciate that you take that time to give back in different ways. It’s not just about your literal time in the chair that you’re thinking about giving away.

Liz Zhou (13:20)
What?

Yeah. Yeah.

And what you’re saying, it’s reminding me of how, you know, we are more than the role we have in the counseling context. So in the way that my business provides for me, supports me financially, allows me to live a good life, then it opens up my capacity just as a human in the world to be a part of my communities, to, you know, really engage in my friendships, to show up for my family. So those are other ways I think about being accessible and all that.

Amanda (13:30)
Yes.

I know kind of another layer, I guess, of accessibility that we kind of talked about a little bit is you used to do, you were all virtual as a therapist, and then you started doing intensives and opened up some in-person availability because it’s a question I hear a lot from therapists. like, only people are only going to want to do this in person. I don’t want to do in person. I just want to do virtual. But now you’re in this RV traveling the world.

How do your weekly sessions, how do intensives look for you when you are just in your RV in your cozy little office?

Liz Zhou (14:28)
Yes.

Yes, I think it’s so interesting that I’ve gotten to experience intensives in an in-person setting and seen client interest in that model. And then when I went all online only, had already had a bit of a reputation of I do intensives ⁓ and was, you know, when inquiries would come in, I would inform them, actually, I’m online only now. Are you still interested? And I found it was, it was kind of a mix of you, me just being confident that whether this is online or in person, this is still valuable because

it’s about the intentionality we bring to the time. It’s not about whether we can feel the same couch in the same room. So that and then also.

Amanda (15:05)
Right, yes.

Liz Zhou (15:13)
Gosh. So, then I’ll also share how the structure changed. So when I was doing in-person intensives in Denver, I would do a 90 minute intake session with them online. And then I would do a three hour intensive with them in person, usually on a weekend day, since that was how my sublet was set up. And then I would do maybe a 20 minute check-in call with them within a week of the intensive. And that would usually be, the format and it felt really neat and contained and people loved it. I never actually had an intensive where anyone

said like this wasn’t worth it or I don’t even know why it was always almost always I got so much out of this or I feel so different now in a good way so so that was great and that boosted my confidence that yes I can offer this valuable and powerful service so then when I switched to online only I I did check in with my own capacity because there was something in me that didn’t feel

Amanda (15:45)
Mm-hmm

Of course. Yeah.

Liz Zhou (16:05)
quite comfortable doing three hours online in a row and that was due to just my own relationship to screens. I don’t really like sitting still in front of a screen for more than 90 minutes. So then I just told myself, okay, what if I split up my intensive format into a 90 minute session one, 90 minute session two, and then a 90 minute session three, and then we just scheduled that across a week. So that became the new format. put up a, I just slightly edited the page and then it did call it a nervous system healing

because I felt that it was helpful for clients to know what the intensive was about because not everyone knew what EMD or IFS or brain spotting were. So that new format, I just…

put it out there and then I just talked to clients about it on the console calls and once I explained it to them or maybe they had read the page and they just needed to confirm that they liked my voice and my energy. And now that’s been just as I would say, yeah, I still get inquiries. I still book them. I did count. did something like.

11 intensives in 2024. And I really started booking them the second half of 2024. And then I did 18 in 2025. So it’s kind of an average of one to two per month, although I did take a couple months in the past year. So it there’s still very much a demand for online. And if I closed off weekly sessions and only did intensives, I’m sure that would I feel confident that, you know, people would be interested in that.

Amanda (17:35)
Yeah, yeah, because I think it is also about your capacity generally, right? Because you do have a weekly case load. You do also limit when you’re working. So I think there are people who want to do an intensive only model of their practice, and that’s totally doable, even if they are virtual only. But it always comes back to this question that I’m having to remind people sometimes around like capacity and sustainability of like, yeah, you can shove a ton of work in a little bit of time for a short period of time.

But we can’t do that forever. And especially those of us who are neurodivergent and have like, have to take care of our needs a little bit more intentionally because we can’t just push, push, push. ⁓ which is another thing I hear a lot from neurodivergent therapists around just like, you know, I’m creating a practice that does not work for me, whether that’s the 30 weekly sessions or I would prefer to do a deeper dive or maybe my clients prefer a deeper dive. But I hear a concern.

of would actually neurodivergent clients like this? Because I think people are maybe over assuming, like the short attention span means that they can’t do concentrated work for an extended period of time, whether that’s three hours in one day or three 90 minute sessions a week. So what has your experience been like with neurodivergent clients as well as a neurodivergent therapist?

Liz Zhou (18:40)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yes, so there is such a variation that absolutely there, what comes to mind is that I have some folks who find the 50 minute weekly session that consistent steady care to be a really great fit and they might not want to meet for longer than 50 minutes. And so that’s why I’m really glad that I’m able to offer that option. And then for the folks who

really need more than 50 minutes and they might not even feel safe to open up and start processing if they know they actually have to wrap up again 40 minutes later. Those are the people who are drawn to the intensives. And I find that the neurodivergent clients who are finding me and my website, because that is the main way people are finding me, they can figure it out themselves. They can read, I mean, for the most part, they can read the descriptions, they can kind of feel, okay, would I want to meet with this person for 390 minute sessions in a week and kind of accelerate the

Amanda (19:46)
Yeah.

Liz Zhou (19:53)
process

or do I want steady consistent care across several weeks. And then so I just present the information in a way that really allows them the autonomy and choice to decide for themselves and informed consent. And so people who maybe really like to hyper focus, they might have a slower or more complex processing style. They are very thorough. So when they do open up something like a memory network or write like or just a theme, they

it’s really important to them to kind of close that loop. So that’s where having at least 90 minutes is helpful and has created shifts that I haven’t seen possible in weekly therapy for that type of brain and that type of nervous system. So, and then people with maybe shorter attention spans, they choose the weekly therapy. to me, there’s such a variation and I feel like what we’re doing as intensive therapists, we’re just giving people options, which.

Amanda (20:49)
Yes.

Liz Zhou (20:49)
Yeah, which is really the heart of what I got from your program. I got a lot from your program, but we’re just giving options. We’re not forcing people into anything. We’re just saying there’s more on the menu.

Amanda (20:52)
Yes.

Exactly.

Yes. Yes. You use two of my favorite words when it comes to us being therapists, which is giving autonomy and choice, right? Rooted in that informed consent of like, okay, if you go this route, here’s what you might be able to expect. If you go this route, here’s what you might be able to expect. But that’s really all we’re doing. I hear so many therapists worry about, and I don’t think I actually ever heard this worry from you in terms of like, but like I have to basically guarantee them that they’re going to have XYZ result, but there are a lot of therapists

Liz Zhou (21:07)
Yes.

Amanda (21:29)
who don’t do intensives because they worry, clients are gonna get mad at them because they didn’t give them a guaranteed healing. And I’m like, that’s not what we’re doing with the intensive model. With the intensive model, we’re offering options. We’re offering the ability to choose what would work for you better, and here’s what you could get out of it. And often, us intensive therapists see clients get a lot more out of it. They do accelerate their progress. ⁓ But I think it’s just the…

not giving the autonomy, not giving the choice. Like that’s maybe one of the least kind things we can do is just to say like, you might benefit from a longer session so that you feel some more safety sharing your story or being in your body, but not giving it because we worry they’re going to shut it down before we even give them the opportunity to shut it down.

Liz Zhou (22:21)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally agree.

Amanda (22:26)
So you’ve said this a couple of times too, and I’m really excited to have this conversation, because I don’t think you and I have talked about it explicitly. You’ve said you’re really into the website work and blogging and SEO and all of that, but there was a time where you went viral on Instagram and you got tons of followers, tons of engagement. Tell me what that was like for you and kind of where your strategy is at now compared to what you were doing.

Liz Zhou (22:42)
Bye

Yes, yes. This story is so funny to me, just because of what I learned about myself and just the nature of media and modern entrepreneurship. I guess to give a context, making a website was the first thing I did when I knew I wanted a private practice. So I got a domain up, I got a very basic homepage up. It looks nothing like what my website looks like now, but I got that up. And so

Amanda (22:58)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Liz Zhou (23:23)
then

when I joined your program, your group coaching program and learned about the SEO, the tech details, the backend stuff, I SEO optimized my website and then started the regular blogging practice because I finally understood how that worked and why that was important. And so I pretty steadily started to see more client inquiries come in through my website via my SEO efforts that started to feel like a reliable way for

for me to know that people could find me.

And so I’d say around the start of January 2024 is when I kind of randomly decided to start an Instagram. And I remember asking you in the group kitchen call, like, should I, like, what’s the point? Like, and then you asked me, and you said something like, well, just kind of figure out what your why is for each thing and figure out the purpose of each channel. And so I decided still very vaguely that I wanted my Instagram purpose to be to share content and psycho education in a way that felt encouraging and relatable to people.

Amanda (24:08)
Mm-hmm

Liz Zhou (24:26)
And so I started posting there semi-regularly, January 2024 was a very small account for a very long time, maybe 300 to 500 followers for the whole first year. But I kept putting out the content because it was helping me refine my messaging and it felt fun and just playful. And then this whole time I was still blogging pretty regularly and keeping the website just tending to it and learning more about website marketing. And then January 2025 is when my Instagram

went viral for a reel and then a couple reels after that. By then I was much more specialized in my messaging. So I was speaking much more directly to highly sensitive and neurodivergent people. I realized that was really the audience I was most passionate about connecting with. so that combined with my consistency of posting allowed my reel to go viral in the Instagram algorithm at that time. And then my account basically just went from less than a thousand followers to 5,000.

in a couple weeks, maybe a week, and then to 10,000 a few weeks later. And that was very exciting. It was also a lot and a bit overwhelming because just for me as a sensitive person, even though it was a good attention in a way, there were also some comments on the reel that just felt I, you know, I…

Amanda (25:35)
Yes.

Liz Zhou (25:48)
Because I’m not able to capture the nuance of everything in a one-minute reel there It didn’t feel like I could have a thorough conversation explaining my whole perspective on topics that may be just multifaceted especially around autism and masking etc. So so then I was just taking all that in the all the red notifications of your follower count is growing people are commenting but I can’t keep up with the comments and then people started booking on my calendar because I

Amanda (26:00)
Yeah. Yes.

Liz Zhou (26:16)
I put my website link in the bio of my Instagram account, which is great practice. And that’s when I realized it would actually make sense for me to start a coaching branch of my practice. So I started another LLC to start to meet with clients who were outside of Colorado, but wanted to work with me.

Amanda (26:19)
⁓ huh.

Yeah.

Liz Zhou (26:32)
So anyway, I kept that going. kept posting on Instagram. I kept growing a bit, not at a viral speed, but definitely had an audience that was interacting with the post. People booked a couple intensives through people who found me on Instagram. And then somewhere around April or May 2025, I was starting to get a bit burnt out because it was a lot of stimulation for me. I still wasn’t able to keep up with all the comments. So then parts of me felt bad about that.

because of me wanting to give everything, right? I just, so that and then, and then I was also planning to take a month off in May to visit my family, extended family in China. And that was going to be a whole trip, flipping time zones. I wasn’t going to be meeting with any clients because the time zone difference made no sense to do that. That was actually a month I focused more on website projects. And I,

Amanda (27:05)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Liz Zhou (27:31)
I also knew I didn’t want to be posting on Instagram for my whole month out of office. So I basically slowly stopped posting on Instagram. I felt my capacity come back. I took that one month break. And then when I came back to the States in June of 2024,

I just decided I didn’t want to put that much effort into social media anymore. I was really grateful for it. And I met some incredible people through social media, other practitioners, just other people in the neurodivergent community. But I just couldn’t go on anymore. And I noticed that my website was still bringing in people at a steady clip, even though I hadn’t blogged at that point in several months. And we know that we don’t have to blog all the time to get it.

clicks and inquiries, can just be right. This builds across time. This has staying power SEO. So, so I just stopped and that was that maybe is my personality to just go all in and then go all out. I can be very black in that way because that was the only way that made sense to me. I didn’t want to have to Instagram because we based on what I understand about that from that wouldn’t have even been that effective. So I

Amanda (28:27)
Yeah.

Liz Zhou (28:41)
I just stopped and then I started to funnel people who found me on Instagram into an email newsletter and I started just sending out weekly emails that were just writing from my heart and just a structure that felt more creative to me than trying to fit my ideas into something Instagramable. So that’s the long story short or long story long really. And so when I just went back to, know, really I love my website. I love the blogs that bring clients to me. that

It felt like the steady old friend in the background that was working all along. And now when I do go on Instagram every once in a while, it’s just for fun. It’s just when I feel inspired, but I do notice that it overwhelms me.

Amanda (29:12)
Mm-hmm.

Yes,

it is very overwhelming. I don’t do a lot on my therapy Instagram to market my practice because SEO has always been the thing that I’ve needed. But even being so active on my coaching Instagram, it’s been a lot since 2023. I actually just hired a social media manager a couple of months ago, which has made it significantly better to, yes, I have to batch record the content, but now I’m not.

tracking the notifications so much and not responding to comments so much. I’m in my DMs, but I don’t even think I realized how overstimulating it was to have to put out content X amount of times per week and do all of that. And especially when it comes back to my therapy business, that’s not the way I was getting clients. Like people weren’t reaching out there. And so I actually just had a conversation with my coach around like, why are we still

you know, paying a virtual assistant to like create carousels and do stuff there when like, I’m kind of half-assing Instagram right now for my therapy business when like SEO is the thing that works and like that is totally fine. So now we’re going to even like drop more dead off of my therapy Instagram account because, because I’m not using it in the way that even I wanted to. Cause yeah, originally I was doing it for fun, but then it was like, but I have to

play to the algorithms game, whereas SEO, there’s strategy and there’s formula to it, but it’s not an algorithm that changes with time and that you have to post blogs X amount of time per week and stuff like that, as you know. So I think for a lot of therapists who ask these questions around different marketing strategies, like you said, it’s always, what’s the purpose of it and actually is it working for you? We have to market in a sustainable way because we can’t market.

all the time. We can’t market on 15 different platforms, especially if most of them aren’t even working. So I’m so glad that you have found not just what works for you logistically to bring in clients, but also again, in a sustainable way for your nervous system because Instagram can be a lot.

Liz Zhou (31:33)
Yes, yes.

It feels like a hot potato in my hands when I go on the app. And I will say that I, there were parts of me that felt sad to say goodbye to Instagram and I also now see it as.

Amanda (31:39)
Ha

Liz Zhou (31:50)
Okay, instead of someone finding me on Instagram and the algorithm, because I popped up in their feed and then from there they go to my website, what’s probably happening now is people who people find my website and then from there they might click into my Instagram because that’s linked in the footer of my site and then just check out my feed and they’ll see my history of posts. And yes, the last post was over six months ago, but they’ll see the messaging I have, they’ll see my vibe. And so it serves as this portfolio that that sits there. And so in that sense,

That helped me feel better about not being more active because it’s not like all is lost. It’s still there and representing my work.

Amanda (32:29)
Exactly. Which does, cause I get this question a lot too, when it comes to now, how is AI interfering with or taking over SEO? It’s not that it is, but there is something to be said for being found on multiple platforms. So like the fact that you do have an Instagram account, even if you’re not posting on it for the algorithm’s purpose, like AI bots at least are like, look at this well established account.

that is hyper niche and clearly has had some amount of like credibility and engagement to it. like that’s probably still serving you in some ways if a client ever finds you from chat, GPT or something like that. But yeah, I think it’s, it’s nice actually that you miss the good parts of it as opposed to like you sign on and yeah, this is hot potato of what am going to do and how am going to be overwhelmed or offended today? Cause there’s some offending that can happen on Instagram.

Liz Zhou (33:08)
Yes. Yes.

Right.

Yeah, and those are the posts that get the most traction because Instagram wants us to be angry at scrolling. Yes, yes. And speaking of chat GPT, yeah, I’ve had more clients tell me they found me through chat GPT or Gemini or when when they fill out.

Amanda (33:27)
They sure are.

Mm-hmm.

Liz Zhou (33:39)
the inquiry form, which I think is cool. And it’s to your point, that’s why I’m really glad I set myself up to have a presence on different platforms. So my YouTube account has maybe like 200 subscribers and not that many views, but just the fact that it’s established and that, you know, has stuff. It helps me, ⁓ helps chat GPT and that kind of AIO, right? I kind of understand what I’m about. And it’s all based on the similar SEO principles.

Amanda (33:40)
Yeah.

Mm-mm.

Yeah,

absolutely. Yeah. So that’s awesome that again, you’re just ultimately across your practice, both who you’re working with, how you’re working with them and how you’re marketing yourself. Like you have truly found a way that works for your nervous system, your time, your needs, your preferences, and just that you feel good about where you’re at right now. I think that’s huge because you’ve, it’s not like you’ve been doing this for 15 years and finally figured it out. Like you’re still relatively new, all things considered. And I think that’s

amazing to feel like you started with so much intention and now, you know, being two, three years into really having your practice, like you can feel like, you know, the possibilities for you are just, I don’t want to say like endless, that’s almost a little too cheesy, but like, it’s different to keep growing with intention than to feel like you have to reverse a lot of stuff.

Liz Zhou (34:51)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I appreciate that reflection. I’m just so glad that I found support early in my journey and that I set these things up as seeds, not really knowing what would happen, and then now they’re growing. I feel like taken care of by my practice and the systems I set up, which is a really lovely feeling.

Amanda (35:22)
Yes. Yeah. It’s not something a lot of therapists have is feeling like they have to keep taking care of the practice, but it doesn’t always take care of them back. And to feel like you have something that is taking care of you. Like that’s amazing. That’s beautiful.

Yeah. And so for you, when it comes to thinking about like the future of not just your private practice, but private practice generally, like where do you see things going? Cause yeah, we started to have this conversation about AI and a lot of people are worried about AI taking over. I’ve heard some people worry that even therapy intensives are just like a fad or a trend. So for, yeah, right. Interesting. For you, like what do you see as the future of your practice and private practice generally?

Liz Zhou (36:09)
What immediately comes up is, think, what do I want as a client of therapy or a person who receives services that help me heal or take care of myself? And then that helps me guide what I’d want to offer my clients. And then in that, because I’m also representative, represent the vast audience of people who need support. I…

I guess I’m saying that I’m learning to take my own intuition and wants seriously as a hint of what could be a next step of what I offer as well. And so I, I’m surprised to hear people think that intensives might be a fraud because I see it as…

Amanda (36:46)
Yeah.

Liz Zhou (36:50)
It almost feels full circle where as I said me coming from that ceremonial plant medicine background of like this is how people have gathered to heal in many different cultures and contexts across time. And I’m not saying we’re going to exactly recreate that in our Western context, but sort of our version of that that makes sense. So I see so much possibility and like bursting like it could be.

Amanda (37:15)
Mm-hmm.

Liz Zhou (37:16)
intensive, more therapists are offering longer sessions and actually have that built out in their schedules, which I think is half of the thing, just making it a possibility in your schedule. ⁓ I also think about group experiences. I’m going to be going on ⁓ a group training retreat in February, actually for brain spotting. And so I’m really looking forward to that for my own healing and learning. And so I imagine in the future, a lot of clientele will

Amanda (37:25)
Yeah, seriously, yes.

Amazing.

Liz Zhou (37:46)
will want that in some form. I what else? I also think retreats, I mean, I just said that, but sort of like longer, like it, that’s the ultimate intensive, right? It’s like multi-day, maybe it’s a group or so I mean, group retreats, family retreats, couple, I like it’s so many ideas that I see it just going in the direction of like where we see people ⁓ having a need or a gap and yeah.

Amanda (37:55)
Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

Ha

Yeah. And I think insurance being the way it currently is and who knows what’s coming in 2026 with more insurance changes. Like I think there are, I’ve seen a lot of people like regardless of where they’re at income wise, trying to think about like, how do I actually get my needs met? And I think the more again that we can offer free psycho education versus weekly sessions, intensive sessions, retreats, the more we just give people options and autonomy.

the more people can take care of themselves and the ways that works for them. So I think like, yeah, it’s just, that’s again, one of the best things we can do is just give choice of here’s the options of ways to access help, like what works for you.

Liz Zhou (38:57)
Yes.

Yeah, yeah. I also want to say, think one aspect of the future of therapy is therapists being more authentic. And what I mean by that is I was trained in the model of we’re just going to be kind of mysterious and not disclose very much, then just keep the focus on the client. so with the work I do with clients, it’s not that…

Amanda (39:11)
Mm-hmm.

Liz Zhou (39:27)
It’s not really that I’m they know coming in my identities, my background, the lived experiences that help me understand their lived experiences, not just from a textbook textbook. I’m the expert perspective, but rather from a we both struggle with this. Yes, internalized ableism is a thing that exists that impacts all of us. It’s not going to stop just because we’re in this room together right now. Right. So ⁓ and I think part of the authenticity for me is acknowledging how the systemic

Amanda (39:45)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Liz Zhou (39:55)
factors and systemic issues also impact us. it’s not, you know, I would, I would never put the fault on the client for not healing fast enough or thinking better thoughts if it’s like, well, our world right now is really stressful and traumatizing in so many ways. I, that’s my authenticity, just naming that and having that be a part of the therapeutic conversation.

for every other therapist, they’ll have their own version of their authenticity. I think clients just want to feel that we’re real people as well and not just pretending like we have it all together, right? That, yeah, yeah.

Amanda (40:27)
Mm-hmm.

And I think even that might be so, ⁓ what would a word be for that? People are gonna vary on their preference for that too. I know I have a bad fit client when people call me Doc, even though I’m like, you don’t have to call me Dr. Beduris, just call me Amanda, because I wanna be more relational and more on equal playing fields, because I’m a human and I’ve got my stuff too. But when people are like, well, what do you think, Doc? Or like, well, you’re the expert, blah, blah, blah. I’m like.

No, I think you’re looking for something different here. Whereas some therapists might want that. They might want to be in expert role and that’s totally fine. But I think that is different then in how we market. Like how do we market on social media or our website or whatever it is when you want expertise to drive your marketing tactics versus authenticity and connection. But I totally agree with you, but also I’m totally biased in the sense of like the more I feel like I can relate to someone, the more I feel.

comfortable with someone, both like that’s who I hire as a coach, that’s who I want as a client. So I think it just really helps to feel that human connection. And even to kind of like you were saying, that’s one of the reasons that you chose to reach out to me is because I am a woman of color and because you knew that there would be certain things, even though we have different backgrounds, you know, there’s things I might understand differently than someone who doesn’t have the lived experience of a person of color. So I think.

that’s really important for people to think about too when they think about the type of support that they want in their practice, because there’s general support you can get, but then there’s slightly more personalized support that you can get.

Liz Zhou (42:12)
Yeah, yeah, completely agree.

Amanda (42:17)
Well, I’m sure I could talk your ear off forever and I want to be respectful of your time. I know you’ve got some consultations to go to. So before we end this recording, is there anything else that you kind of just want to put out there to share with anyone who’s listening to this episode?

Liz Zhou (42:38)
that’s such a great question. my mind goes blank. I I know. I guess I would assume if you’re listening to this, you are a therapist and you’re wanting to figure out a way how to do this that makes you happy and then also builds wealth. gosh, I guess I would want to share that.

Amanda (42:41)
It’s so open.

Liz Zhou (43:03)
It’s like going back to the authenticity piece. And even when I choose how to mark and what’s a strategy, I’m really now, I’m really now just ask myself, what would I like to do? Like, what would make me happy? And that seems so simple and obvious, but parts of me are so used to like, what would make

other people happy? Or what would get me the least judgment from other therapists that it feels sad to name that but because that is something I’ve experienced, especially as a pre-licensed clinician. Now I’m licensed but was pre-licensed and you know doing my thing which perhaps brought in some reactions from others at certain point and so I would say that you know like

Amanda (43:43)
Yeah.

Liz Zhou (43:47)
ask what you want because the only thing that makes us sustainable is if I’m doing it in a way that I want to do it. And again, that seems so obvious, but I wish I could have a way to tell my younger self that because that really makes all of the difference.

Amanda (44:06)
100%. Yeah, because I think whether we have our own complex trauma, whether we do have internalized ableism, whatever it is, I think there’s always a reason we’re driven to think about how do I fit into the box? How do I just make other people happy? But we really don’t turn that light around enough and think about what do I want? What’s going to make me happy? What’s going to be sustainable for me? So I think we all probably could have gone back and wish we could have gone back and think about that with.

even more intention. Like you’ve already done a lot of it, but I think like you’re saying even more intention and having it be almost like a grounding question to think about for the future of like, well, what do I want? Yeah, I love that. Well, thank you so much for sharing some of your stories and just again for being here with me today. And I’m sure we will chat more soon.

Liz Zhou (44:38)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yes, thank you so much. So fun.

Amanda (44:59)
Thanks, Liz.