Happy, Healthy, & Wealthy Therapists | Ep 16: When You’re Neurodivergent and Ambitious

Released: 02/27/2026

Show Notes:

In this conversation, Amanda and Patrick Casale explore the themes of individuality in podcasting, the challenges of self-doubt and imposter syndrome, and the importance of authenticity in content creation. They discuss the difficulties of visibility and criticism, the necessity of setting boundaries in both personal and professional life, and the recognition of limits to avoid burnout. The conversation emphasizes the value of reflection, building trust in professional relationships, and the transformative power of community. Patrick shares his mantra, ‘Doubt yourself, do it anyway,’ highlighting the importance of taking action despite fear and learning from failure as a pathway to growth.

About Patrick Casale:

I am so excited today to welcome my guest, Patrick Casale, MA, LC, MHC. He’s the owner of the All Things Private Practice LLC and Resilient Mind Counseling PLLC. Patrick is a TEDx speaker, author, therapist, podcast host of two podcasts, business coach, group practice owner, and a retreat host. Patrick Casale is an Audi HD 2E mental health therapist, neurodivergent business coach, and prolific TEDx speaker.

He leads international retreats, summits, and coaching programs, helping entrepreneurs work through imposter syndrome, self-doubt, and perfectionism, all while embracing their authenticity. He has coined the phrase, doubt yourself, do it anyway, which is trademarked. He is the founder of the All Things Private Practice LLC and the host of the All Things Private Practice podcast and the co-host of Divergent Conversations podcast. Patrick also owns a group therapy practice in Asheville, North Carolina.

With experience in both the clinical mental health world and the small business world, he has helped hundreds of thousands of mental health professionals around the world start and grow their businesses while staying aligned to their values and dreams. Patrick lives in Asheville, North Carolina with his wife, Arielle, and his two dogs, Hudson and Hazel. He loves to travel, Lord of the Rings, Anthony Bourdain, Capybaras, cold brew coffee, and craft beer.

3 Key Takeaways:

1. Your voice is your differentiator: There’s room for you in a crowded space because people choose creators/coaches based on individuality, not “who’s the best,” so you don’t have to wait until you feel uniquely qualified to start.
2. Visibility is a neurodivergent paradox: Building an online brand requires being perceived (and criticized), so sustainable growth means boundaries, self-protection, and choosing platforms/outputs that match your nervous system.
3. “Doubt yourself, do it anyway” is a practice, not a vibe: Imperfect action, failure-as-data, and honest reflection are what create momentum—especially for high-achieving therapists who tend to overthink, over-credential, and delay.

Connect with Patrick:

• Instagram: @patrick.casale
• Website: https://www.allthingspractice.com/
• Podcast: https://www.allthingspractice.com/all-things-private-practice-podcast

Connect with Amanda:

• Follow on Instagram: @amandakbcoaching
• Check out the Amanda KB Coaching website

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Sponsors:

• This episode is sponsored by Alma – learn more here
• This episode is sponsored by Jane – use code: AMANDA2MO for a 2-month grace period

Resources & Links:

SEO for Therapists Membership

Therapy Intensives Academy

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Free Training: 3 Steps to Booking Your First Therapy Intensive

Free Guide: 3 Steps to Double Your Income

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Just a quick heads up, everything I share in this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. It’s not legal advice, financial advice, or tax advice. Every practice and every state has its own rules. So if you’re wondering how something applies to your situation, make sure to check in with an attorney, accountant, or another qualified professional who can give you guidance based on your specific circumstances.

Transcript:

Amanda (00:02)
All right, thanks so much for joining me today, Patrick. I’m excited to have you on.

Patrick (he/his) (00:06)
Yeah, it’s good to be here. Congrats on creating this and launching it. So it’s a awesome next step in chapter.

Amanda (00:12)
Yes, yes. And you and I have been talking a little bit already about the self doubt imposter syndrome stuff. And this is definitely an area where I’m like, there’s enough podcasts for therapists out there. What unique thing do I have to offer and say? But then I was like, you know, fuck it. I’m just going to have some fun with it at some point.

Patrick (he/his) (00:30)
Yeah, you know, I like that perspective. I think that we can always get in our heads with that mentality about anything. ⁓ And I think that there’s room and enough for all of us. I think it’s all about individuality makes a huge difference. Like people could listen to your podcast and hate mine. They could love mine. It’s like, you know, it just doesn’t really matter at the end of the day. There’s enough people listening to podcasts.

Amanda (00:58)
Yeah. Hopefully they like both. We’ve got some overlap in friends in the space. So hopefully.

Patrick (he/his) (00:58)
Hopefully they like pulse. That’s the goal,

Yeah.

Amanda (01:07)
But I think that is something that drew me to you initially is that you did stand out from a lot of the kind of just like fluffy stuff that was out there. People who are just, you know, all about like, you can do this and all of this is great. And your stuff was one of the first spaces where I heard like, this shit is also hard and there are also going to be a lot of barriers and hard things about it. And that doesn’t mean you do it anyway. You find the way to make it yours. And I think that

Patrick (he/his) (01:16)
Mm.

Amanda (01:34)
has been a really unique voice and honestly in some ways still is.

Patrick (he/his) (01:38)
Thanks. Yeah. I mean, I was just finding my way and I think just naturally being myself. ⁓ I know that for a very long time, I kept myself playing very, very small in most spaces. And I, I still remember this like vividly right before COVID and the pandemic started. I had lunch with a mentor from grad school.

And I was kind of telling her, was like, I’m really not enjoying being a therapist that much anymore. I really want to start private practice coaching, but you know, Alison’s here and she has abundance practice. Like why would anyone reach out and hire me if they could hire her? She’s got a massive audience. She’s been around forever. And my mentor was just like, cause you have very different personalities and that is the reality. Like people are going to gravitate because of what you, how you show up and vice versa. Like, so.

Amanda (02:27)
Hehehe

Patrick (he/his) (02:35)
that always stuck with, stuck, my brain hurts. ⁓ That always stuck with me and was kind of the catalyst that I needed to finally just put stuff out into the world because I was doing it already. I was doing it for like lunch and coffee and for free and you might see my Shih Tzu make an appearance. He is asleep. It is 71 degrees here in Nashville and it is miserable. ⁓ So yeah, that just always stood with me and ⁓

Amanda (02:58)
jeez.

Patrick (he/his) (03:05)
I still am very grateful for that person and that conversation and that time in my life.

Amanda (03:10)
Yeah, I think it continues almost to surprise me when I get feedback around like, I just really like your style and I really like what you have to say. And there is still a part of me that goes like, am I saying something different? And I know that I am. I know that there’s a lot of ways that I very intentionally put more of my experience, my personality, my ways of thinking into how I talk about things. But to me, it feels normal because I’m just talking about what I believe in. But for people who

are hearing messages that are too like fluffy or just like, just believe in yourself and anything’s possible people who are just maybe.

Patrick (he/his) (03:47)
Wait, wait.

Whose voice is that by the way? Like is that how you hear those messages? Like it comes up in that way? Okay. I how do you do this?

Amanda (03:55)
That’s a great question. Yeah, because

I’m sure those messages are actually out there. And I’m sure that’s also how I hear it. If I just hear anyone can do this, it’s simple. That triggers all of my high achieving shit around. Well, if it’s not actually simple for me, am I doing something wrong? And so then I shy away from it. So I’ve played small a lot in my life.

Patrick (he/his) (04:01)
Right. Yeah.

Yeah.

Amanda (04:21)
Whether

those people are actually as optimistic and fluffy as I perceive them to be, who knows. ⁓

Patrick (he/his) (04:26)
I just didn’t realize that in your head, these

optimistic fluffy people sound like a version of Mickey Mouse or something. But yeah, no, I agree. you know, I think that’s, that’s a thing, right? Is it when we’re talking about branding, when we’re talking about standing out, when we’re talking about developing anything. And when you start to take up space on social media or in general, you’re going to be open for criticism. mean, listen, y’all.

Amanda (04:32)
Hahaha

Maybe.

Patrick (he/his) (04:54)
I can’t tell you the amount of emails I get that tell me they hate how much I curse, but are so thankful for the resource. And I’m always confused by that. It’s perplexing. Or like, we’ll go on to leave a review for the Divergent Conversations podcast that I co-host and say things like, great, invaluable resource, so affirming, Patrick’s voice is terrible. And it’s like, Jesus Christ. So,

Amanda (05:21)
What?

Patrick (he/his) (05:24)
You know, you have to, unfortunately, develop some sort of, I don’t want to say thicker skin, but there’s got to be some callousness to it because honestly, the more you show up, the more you create, the more you are visible, the more likely it is that people are going to want to tear you down. And we live in an era of social media trolling and just being really disrespectful and just rude. And you just kind of have to glance over it.

Amanda (05:51)
Yeah, I remember hearing, I don’t remember which happened first, but in your Italy summit, was that last year? Two years ago, two years ago at this point, it says 2024, when there was a presentation on social media and like the virality, is that how you would say that word? Whatever, going viral a lot of times depends on like negative engagement. And so I’ve gotten a few posts where I talk about,

Patrick (he/his) (06:00)
I don’t

Amanda (06:18)
what I charge as a therapist, what I make as a therapist, and I do get a lot of negative engagement from that. And the very first time it happened, I did not want to post on social media for like a week. I wanted to hide because I was like, clearly I’ve done something wrong and I’m a horrible person, so I’m just not going to do this anymore. And that was really hard to work through and overcome. And I did a lot of that with my therapy and with my business coaching ⁓ because yeah, it’s not fun to be that

Patrick (he/his) (06:29)
For sure.

Amanda (06:47)
the center of that type of attention, and especially when I’m generally not a person who likes to be the center of attention.

Patrick (he/his) (06:52)
Yeah, it’s hard. think you have to figure out a way where there’s this paradox for a lot of us who are neurodivergent, particularly those of us who might be either autistic or ADHD, we don’t enjoy being perceived. But then the other side of the coin with creating any sort of online brand and business is that you have to be perceived in order to establish presence and reputability and

It’s a really big mind fuck and I honestly hate it. And the bigger my audience has grown, the more reclusive I have become. And it’s really overwhelming. I don’t enjoy it. I often talk about the fantasy of God, if I could just be in a situation financially where I could get off the grid permanently, never have to open an app ever again.

Never have to post, never have to create reels, never have to do any of it and just live and not… It would be the best existence of all time.

Amanda (08:01)
⁓

Yes. And even that to say too is like, whenever I come across your reels, like they do literally stop me from the scroll because it is so different. Like you just kind of pop on and you just like say whatever’s on your mind. You’re like showing off your office and your toys. Like you do have a different presence again, right? And it’s that authenticity instead of this very fluffy edited version that is, you know, more

Patrick (he/his) (08:23)
Bye.

Amanda (08:30)
I don’t know, just like more done up. And again, that’s different, I think.

Patrick (he/his) (08:32)
You know what’s funny about

that is like, I really struggle with content creation, not written form because I love writing and I love like the cathartic experience of it. But making video content is really hard for me because I can’t fake it and I can’t like do the traditional natural like social media hooks and I can’t do any of those things. It just does not come naturally to me.

And oftentimes when I’m recording video content, because I’m autistic, I will add way too much context. And I’m like, how do I keep this to 60 seconds or 90 seconds when it really needs to be four minutes? And, you know, when I have a social media team in place, they’re always like, dude, follow the scripts we’re giving you. like, I can’t do that. I can’t. I’m sure my own, I’m sure the videos would do so much better if I could do those things. And I just can’t do it.

Amanda (09:31)
Yep, no, it’s very, very hard to just not continue to add things because they’re kind like we’re talking about too when it comes to business and just like how you handle it. There’s a lot of context that does need to be shared. A lot of context that can’t fit into 60 to 90 second reels. And so it’s also again, inauthentic and it misses a lot of the human experience of running a business to just give these very short highlights of here’s how this works or how I did this thing.

Patrick (he/his) (09:59)
Yeah, it’s the bane of my existence, honestly. And like, we’ll have people sometimes pop into like reels of the podcasts and say, ⁓ how dare you not talk about A, B, and C and no, you didn’t explain this thoroughly. And it’s like, y’all, this was 60 seconds. There’s a 60 minute episode on this. Did you go and listen to it? And the answer is always no, of course not. Okay.

Amanda (10:18)
No, of course not. No, I

watched the little reel.

Patrick (he/his) (10:24)
Yeah, it’s obnoxious. I think that the parasocial nature of our society is overwhelming. And the reality as someone who has been consistently creating content now for almost five and a half years means that a lot of people think they know me way more than I know them if I know them at all. And they believe that we have an established relationship to some degree and they will get upset.

If I say the wrong thing, if I don’t respond to a message, if I’m not interested in collaborate, like, and I’m like, y’all, I don’t even know who you are. Right. Like, so ultimately it’s really, it’s a complicated thing. And, and Dr. Megan and a Neff and I talk about this on divergent conversations all the time as two audio HD content creators and, ⁓ people in that space, we just want to be left alone, but our businesses rely on the opposite.

this so hard.

Amanda (11:25)
Yes, yes, I actually really appreciate it. think you must have gotten like an appointment reminder for this podcast episode and I got your auto response, which is just like so wonderfully stated. I’m just like, look, I’m practicing digital boundaries. Like I can’t respond to everything. I’m not going to respond soon to things. And I think especially for those of us who are more present and appear to be more active on social media.

Patrick (he/his) (11:43)
Yeah.

Amanda (11:52)
That is what people expect from us of like, I’m going to email you and get a response or you’re going to be available all the time. And that’s just not, not possible, especially when you and I work as hard as we do and combined with different neuro types and how we just need to turn off sometimes.

Patrick (he/his) (12:10)
Yeah, for sure. And admittedly, I hate to say this, that I still respond to all the emails. just, it creates like this buffer of like, I, if I don’t, then it’s going to be more okay. But that’s a problem. That’s my own problem. I think that, you know, even going further than that, can’t remember at this point, how many of my events you’ve come to, but it’s got to be at least five or six. And I think that

Amanda (12:17)
Sure.

at least.

Patrick (he/his) (12:40)
those events can be weird for me as well, right? Because people are paying a good amount of money to come on these events and spend time and connect and all of the things that I try to build in. But I do think sometimes people pay for access and then it means like I feel guilty or like I’m not around enough or I’m not available enough or, you know, and I just keep thinking like, damn, this is really hard because I don’t have the energy to do that.

I don’t have the capacity to like be social throughout the entire experience. I have to remove myself and there’s definitely guilt that comes up acknowledging like people just spent a lot of money to travel across the world to come here. And you know, I actually just had an experience in September. We co-hosted, my friend Jennifer and I co-hosted back to back retreats in Greece followed by Spain and I got sick.

on the plane ride to Spain, got sicker the next day, and then realized very quickly I was not going to be able to be in that event at all. And it felt so shitty to think like people may have been waiting an entire year to come on this experience and I am not even going to be a part of it. And I just try to model like, hey y’all, this is what’s happening. You’re in good hands.

Amanda (13:45)
Hmm.

Patrick (he/his) (14:09)
Jen’s got you, the coaches that we’ve hired have got you, and I’m going back to the United States. I’ve got to go home and take care of myself. And a lot of people were actually very ⁓ appreciative of modeling it that way, but it doesn’t mean I felt any less guilty making that decision.

Amanda (14:28)
Yeah. Yeah. Cause again, there’s lots of ways I think therapists generally, and then all of us with our individual history is like, we’re all kind of conditioned to be on and to give and to talk about boundaries, but not actually enforce them. And especially when you’re in the business with retreats, especially like you’re just talking about, like people are charging money or you’re charging money. People are giving money. feels like that’s

even more expected for you to show up in that way and not have boundaries maybe because it’s costing people quote unquote to do that. 100 % like if you’re not going to show up in the way that you actually can and want to like there’s a cost to that too.

Patrick (he/his) (15:01)
Yeah, exactly.

majorly for sure and I did that for far too long and that’s often why I find myself in burnout phases of my life that I do because I’ve just pushed myself so far beyond my limits over the last five years and now have to almost like rearrange and recreate my entire life professionally and personally because my body continues to tell me like

Yeah, this doesn’t work for me anymore. We’re not letting you do this anymore. And it’s it’s really harrowing to come to ⁓ grips with that reality of terms of limitations and capacity and ability.

Amanda (15:53)
Yeah. Yeah. And it’s, know I’ve told you this before, but it’s been a lot of your content on like, Audi HD struggles where I’m like, huh, a lot of this really resonates. I’m curious if I should get tested and you’re like, well you definitely are, but yes, if you want to get tested, go ahead and do that. But I think again, just for it to be so direct in my face, like that was really a wake up call that I needed around this difference between, you know,

growing up and going to gifted programs and being a part of college prep schools. Like I’m a very perfectionistic high achiever. I don’t even know if I can say I’m recovering. Like maybe I’m working on it. I’m aware of it, but I think it is hard to work on letting it go. Honestly, when you know how far it can take you, but when you also know what it’s costing you health-wise and happiness-wise, like I think the ablest mindset of what we should be able to do.

so gets in the way of so many therapists that I’ve talked with because it does feel like I’m supposed to be able to do it this way and I’m supposed to be able to do it this quickly. But a lot of people are even burning themselves onto the ground, not just with therapy, but even trying to diversify their revenue streams.

Patrick (he/his) (17:08)
Yeah, yeah, hundred percent. So it’s, you know, I think we have to kind of step back sometimes and think about are these things still serving us the things that we’re aiming to do or create if we’re looking to grow our outside of the therapy space or one-on-one therapy and really do an inventory on a pretty consistent basis of what’s serving me. What’s like energizing what is draining me. ⁓ are there things that are

energizing and draining simultaneously and how do I prioritize those things in my life? ⁓ How do I set better boundaries in terms of my time and my energy, my capacity? It’s wild. Like if I look back at when I started all things private practice back in August of 2020 till now, I think back then, like my schedule was full of like collaboration and networking and podcasting and

coaching and it was just jam-packed with all this stuff and it felt new and it did feel exciting and it also was so exhausting and It caught up with me big time, but ultimately You know, I don’t know if I don’t know if I have the success that I’ve had without all of that and I yeah, I think it’s weird to reckon with in terms of existential pivot points and in our careers

Amanda (18:33)
⁓ I think a lot of us, I’ll put myself in the mix too, it’s easy to always be looking forward and to feel like if we’re not doing something, we’re failing or we’re doing it wrong. If we’re not always growing year to year, we’re not doing what we should be. And there’s not, think, as many points or even like encouragements to slow down and think about that.

is this actually still working? Like we’re doing just to do, whereas like I’ve met with people and I’ve had my own experiences where sure, like I’m making great money this month, but I’m also working way more than I would want to be. And actually when I think about it, I’m not running this program in the way I wanted to, I just did it the way I was taught to. So a lot of us, as much of reflective and introspective people as we tend to be, like for some reason it feels like when it comes to business.

we lose that connection of like, well, business is different than life. Like we don’t introspect and do the whole working on the business thing. We just keep working in it, in it, in in it.

Patrick (he/his) (19:41)
Yeah, yep, absolutely. ⁓ yeah, I think for all of you listening, you should be taking these moments to kind of take a look at what you’ve done, what you’re working towards, what you want to achieve, but also to think about what things are serving you, what things you want less of in your life, and to really just prioritize in terms of life is really short. ⁓

We really are not trying to just work and work and work and not get to enjoy all of the fruits of our labor, so to speak, because I’m getting ready to host retreat number 21 and then 22 in New Zealand in a month. And that is exciting. But 21 and 22 over a four year period of time catches up with you and

I think that it just is important to think like, if you’re always burnt out, if you’re always sick, if you’re always depleted, was this all worth it? And sometimes the answer is absolutely yes. And sometimes the answer is absolutely no. And I try to see all of it because I think it, I don’t want to ever sound ungrateful for all of the things that I’ve been able to do and accomplish and the successes and people like yourself putting trust in things and

But at the same time, it’s just this reckoning with yourself of like, this is just no longer working and we’re really going to have to prioritize health and ⁓ recovery going forward.

Amanda (21:26)
which I think too comes back to this. When I had heard you say it was gonna be your last set of retreats, there’s absolutely a part of me that’s like, no, Patrick puts on awesome retreats and now what am I gonna do? Because what it comes back to for me is the level of trust I’ve developed in you to run a really good retreat and to feel comfortable at them and to feel like I’m gonna be able to connect with really cool people and leave with really good ideas.

and also know that it’s fine when I don’t want to come to some talks. And so for me, it’s like now who else can I trust to have like similar spaces? And obviously you and Jen have similar styles. You and Gabrielle are doing lots of things together. So I know I have people to trust, but I think that does come back to this trust piece, even in the coaching and retreat space. Like there are a lot of people that are doing it. And I think those who are relying more on like

AI or just kind of sounding the same as everyone else. Like, I don’t know that people are going to be able to develop those kind of trusting relationships to say things I’ve said to you multiple times, like, just take my money. Like, yep, okay, I’m just giving you more money.

Patrick (he/his) (22:36)
Yeah. And listen, I certainly appreciate that. And that means a lot, but I almost sometimes when I cut some of y’all off from these experiences, I want something and I see a name come through. like, no, I always feel so guilty. I’m like, this shit is expensive. But I also understand that it’s transformative. And that’s kind of what you talk a lot about in terms of your intensives and charging what you charge and all the things that you talk about, right? Like, can we put a price on transformation? Can we put a price on

Amanda (22:45)
Yeah.

Patrick (he/his) (23:06)
complete life altering experience and the answer is probably no and I think that I’ve always tried to stay grounded in that of like people are spending a lot of money so you do have to deliver which is pressure-filled but that’s fine but in reality of like is should I feel guilty about this and sometimes I do like if I see your name come up or Xander’s name come up for the 11th time I’m like I am gonna block your credit card Xander like I’m

Amanda (23:31)
Yeah.

Patrick (he/his) (23:36)
But, you know, I think it’s important to acknowledge too, right? Like we are looking for community and we’re looking to surround ourselves with like-minded people in terms of both personal and professional. And a lot of these events, I’m really eternally grateful that so many people have come on them over the years, but have become friends and then have become friends with each other. I love like, I’m not

an extroverted person and that might sound weird as a host of ⁓ retreats and summits, but I would prefer to stand in the background and like witness people experiencing and connecting and enjoying. And that is what like has been really fulfilling for me. And that for me has always been like the priority since day one. And even my first Ireland retreat back in

March of I just remember like standing in the wine cellar area while we had the, had music going on. And I was watching people like dancing and singing and just being so uninhibited in terms of being so like carefree and joy filled. And then so many of those people became friends with each other and started traveling the world and building businesses. And I was like, damn, this feels like a massive amount of impact and ripple effect. And I didn’t even have to like,

insert myself into that dynamic. it was really, really nice to see that stuff come to fruition.

Amanda (25:10)
Yeah. I mean, I think again, the people that you speak to and the kind of space that you create, like it’s what a lot of us are looking for, which is again, just like freedom to be yourself, freedom to do whatever you want, take care of yourself, but also like when it comes to the business aspect, cause that’s both in life and business, what I just said, but the business aspect is this aspect of taking risks, like even to take risks to travel somewhere, to take risks of.

hearing an idea from one of the speakers and work on implementing it. And I think that’s a lot of the people I have made friends with at your retreats are the people who think like me and honestly like do life and business like me. And so that’s been really fun to connect with a lot of those people and just continue to have relationships and spaces where it does feel like these people get me, these people will support me with no matter like what I do and how I want to do it. And I get to do the same back because

whether someone’s in solo practice or group practice, I think there are still so many of us who feel disconnected, not even just from therapists, but especially from people who are entrepreneurial and who want to do more. still feels very, the virtual space is just, it feels huge. So when we get to connect in person, it’s a whole different experience.

Patrick (he/his) (26:29)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, well said. And, you know, I think it’s, there’s so many cool things out there. And one thing I would recommend for everyone is like, if you’re going to sign up for any coaching program service or retreat or event or anything, I steer clear of the people who are like guaranteeing results and guaranteeing outcomes all the time, because, at least without talking about how hard it’s going to be to create the thing or

or successfully do the thing. So I always try to look for that ⁓ ability to hold both sides of it and to have that nuance and complexity. And I think a lot of people opt more for like that cheerleading positive psychology ⁓ methodology and that just doesn’t work for me. So it’s just important to like, you attract and repel based on how you show up and what you put out into the world. And I think it’s important to just pay attention to that.

Amanda (27:27)
Yeah. And so for me, I want to bring it back to number one, you do a million different things, usually at once. You’re currently writing a book. You’ve done all these amazing things. And so both you’re talking about this aspect of watching your capacity and also paying attention to what you even like doing. But you started this phrase that when I heard it was like, seems so simple, but

Wow, just to hear it put so simply, it can be life-changing, but doubt yourself, do it anyway. Is there a story behind that? And how does that show up in all the things you have done over the years?

Patrick (he/his) (28:07)
Yeah, I mean, I’m sure there’s like a story of origin. ⁓ it was really more like just struggling so much throughout most of my life. And even now I’ve like, ⁓ imposter syndrome, perfectionism, doubt, everything I’ve done and second guessing and, ⁓ holding myself back and then just starting to realize that by doing things with imperfect action and like putting them into the world and

seeing that the energy kind of follows and it can be really a catalyst in a lot of ways when you’re starting to move in the world like that. And then to recognize like that it’s okay for the fear to be there and it’s okay for the doubt to be there. What you don’t want it to do is prevent you from pursuing the things that you are feeling inspired by or creative or motivated by or have these aspirations of like

We have to just try, right? Like we just have to try and we can’t do that if we don’t put it into the world. So I just started saying the phrase. I don’t know even where it came from really. And I’m sure other people have said it before and then I’ve trademarked it because I was like, you know, but I don’t give a shit. mean, that’s never going to something that matters to me, but like, I just realized that it had become kind of foundational and

Amanda (29:25)
Mm-hmm

Hahaha.

Patrick (he/his) (29:37)
even with the summits that I’ve hosted and a lot of the events that I’ve done that has kind of become not only the slogan and catchphrase, but just like the core concept of we are all operating from these places and ideas of like, maybe it’s a core belief, maybe it’s inner child wounding, maybe it’s just something you’ve heard recently, maybe it’s some harsh self criticism.

of telling yourself you’re not good enough, you don’t know how, you’re not competent, you don’t deserve to do this, why would anyone, do you even have anything meaningful to say? All of those things that are so painful that we all kind of have our own version of that. Where it came from, you know, it’s different for everybody. But the reality is that if we are all moving towards the things that feel really scary and putting them into the world,

regardless of that fear, the world does not stop spinning. ⁓ And it feels a lot less pressure filled once you get it out of your head. And that’s really been so meaningful for me, but I know it’s been really helpful for a lot of other people as well.

Amanda (30:55)
Yeah, yeah, because I think it is. I don’t know a single therapist who isn’t like an overachiever and who doesn’t want to get A pluses on everything. Like we tend to all be people who are lifelong learners and want to do things really, really well. And I think that that shows up in everything we do, even with you and I are talking a little bit about like the diverse streams of income, but even within therapy.

Patrick (he/his) (31:14)
Right.

Amanda (31:23)
And as I talk with people about therapy intensives, so many people get into their head around, I’m supposed to be an even better therapist. need more credentials to do that. There has to be this amazing transformation I’m guaranteeing because of what I might charge for these. And at the end of the day, what I continue to tell people is like, you’re just doing the same thing you already do. Some of the messaging and marketing maybe looks a little bit different, but I found when I moved from doing

40 to 60 minute sessions to doing three hours. like, I actually feel like a better therapist. And it’s not because I got more training. It’s because I stopped working against the restrictions of the clock. I stopped trying to distill interventions in this tiny time. And like, if that’s all I needed to feel like a more confident therapist, why didn’t I do this forever ago? But there is, there’s just so many things where we feel like we have to wait until X in order to do something. And that

finish line will just continue to push itself further and further. And so to your point of just like, it can be imperfect and actually that’s totally fine and you’re not going to die and the world’s not going to stop spinning. Like I think the more that all of us can embrace some of that, I think it also would become less scary to just take big and little risks.

Patrick (he/his) (32:43)
Yeah, absolutely. Really well said. And I think that the more we normalize the fact that it is scary, that it is overwhelming, that people have fear of failure, people do fail. You are going to mess up. You’re going to make mistakes. You’re going to walk it back sometimes. You’re going to like, and I think this is all a part of life and I don’t love shying away from that part of it in terms of

business or personal. And I just think that it’s so important to normalize both sides because that’s where the shame comes from of like the feeling of I’m the one who can’t do this. I’m the one who doesn’t have enough to offer something wrong with me. How is everyone else so successful all the time? And if we just talked more about that part of it, it would be collectively a lot less overwhelming.

and would probably allow for a lot more people to take action on the things that they feel really inspired by.

Amanda (33:48)
Yeah, I started doing these exercise classes called solid core. They’re like, don’t call them Pilates. They’ll be offended if you call them Pilates, but it’s kind of like Pilates where they have these motivational sayings on the wall and on the floor. And one of them is finding failure is success. And a whole part of their exercise mentality is like, you’re supposed to work your muscles to the point of failure. Like that’s how they get stronger. And I think

the more that I’ve also done that. Like, obviously that’s a personal thing I’m doing in my life, but that continues to carry over into my business as well of like, okay, if I did try something and it failed, I still learned something from that. Whether it’s, you know, it literally wasn’t the right time to do it, or I didn’t have the capacity to do that well, or maybe no one does want that offer and that’s fine because that is still success and teaching me like, focus on this, not on that. And so I think.

Patrick (he/his) (34:43)
Absolutely.

Amanda (34:44)
Failure is okay. Failure is success in some ways when we choose to see it that way.

Patrick (he/his) (34:49)
Yeah, absolutely. It’s a data point and it just allows us to learn from and grow and pivot and evolve. And I think that’s an important part of being a small business owner is not everything you’re going to do is going to go well. And sometimes it’s going to be really messy and sometimes it’s going to be very overwhelming, sometimes going to flop. And those are the moments where I’ve learned the most. It’s not when things go really well, where I’m like stepping away with aha moments or epiphanies. It’s like,

I need to have these things happen in order to be like, ⁓ got to learn from that or I’ve got to grow from that. Never going to do that again. So that stuff is really important.

Amanda (35:31)
I everything that you’re saying today as things that you say always as well. Like I said, I’m going to make you uncomfortable and fangirl over you because like literally like all the ways that you show up in your personal life and in business like truly have been transformational for me for leaning into this, doubt yourself, do it anyway, for leaning into making myself hella uncomfortable for helping me learn more things about myself personally and professionally.

I just wanna appreciate you and all the work that you do.

Patrick (he/his) (36:02)
Well, I really appreciate that and I’m looking forward to being in New Zealand together and spending time on the other side of the world and not here.

Amanda (36:12)
Yeah, it’s going to be dope because the United States is fucked right now. So I’m looking forward to it. Is there anything else you want to leave the listeners with any thoughts or things to consider?

Patrick (he/his) (36:25)
No, I think that that’s a good summation of everything. think if you want to experience more of this, you can come to Portland, Maine to the third annual doubt yourself do it anyway summit September 1st to the third. And otherwise, I think that is it.

Amanda (36:47)
Perfect. Anywhere you want people to, as we’re talking about social media, anywhere you want people to follow you most or engage with your content.

Patrick (he/his) (36:55)
So you can go to allthingspractice.com ⁓ for my website offerings, ⁓ podcasts, upcoming events, anything else I’ve got free resources, trainings, workbooks, et cetera. Someone else bought allthingsprivatepractice.com, which is a bummer. And then I have the All Things Private Practice podcast, which you’ve been a guest on and that’s on all the platforms and YouTube.

You can go to my Instagram, which is probably where I’m the most active these days and that’s just Patrick.casel

Amanda (37:29)
right, thanks so much for your time today, Patrick. I will see you in New Zealand.

Patrick (he/his) (37:33)
Before we do it.