Happy, Healthy, & Wealthy Therapists | Ep 28: Why Strategy Alone Won’t Grow or Scale Your Practice

Released: 05/08/2026

Show Notes:

In this episode, Amanda sits down with Danielle Swimm to talk about the mindset shifts therapists often need before business strategy can actually work. They explore the fear, perfectionism, and identity work that can come up when therapists try to grow beyond traditional one-to-one work, increase visibility, or build something bigger. Danielle shares how entrepreneurship can trigger deeper fears around success, money, and being seen, while Amanda reflects on the ways therapists often stay stuck waiting to feel “ready.” Together, they unpack why mindset work is not separate from business growth, and how learning to tolerate discomfort, uncertainty, and visibility can completely change what feels possible.

About Danielle Swimm:

Danielle Swimm is a therapist in Annapolis, Maryland. She’s a group practice owner and also runs the Entrepreneurial Therapist, a consulting company where she helps female therapists start and scale their private practices through courses, big ideas, and group practice. She’s passionate about helping female entrepreneurs push beyond their fears and learn mindset, marketing, and systems. She’s a single mama of a five-year-old and in her free time, hikes and reads.

3 Key Takeaways:

1. Mindset work is often the foundation that allows therapists to actually implement business strategy, because fears around visibility, success, identity, and being misunderstood can quietly block growth.
2. Building a business beyond one-to-one therapy often requires therapists to step into a new identity, surround themselves with supportive mentors, and tolerate discomfort while learning new skills.
3. Sustainable growth comes from deeply serving the people already in front of you, rather than constantly chasing more followers, more clients, or faster success.

Connect with Danielle:

• The Entrepreneurial Therapist Podcast
• The Entrepreneurial Therapist Newsletter

Connect with Amanda:

• Follow on Instagram: @amandakbcoaching
• Check out the Amanda KB Coaching website

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Sponsors:

• This episode is sponsored by Alma – learn more here
• This episode is sponsored by Jane – use code: AMANDA2MO for a 2-month grace period

Resources & Links:

SEO for Therapists Membership

Therapy Intensives Academy

Happy, Healthy, & Wealthy Mastermind

Free Training: 3 Steps to Booking Your First Therapy Intensive

Free Guide: 3 Steps to Double Your Income

SEO Freebie

Just a quick heads up, everything I share in this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. It’s not legal advice, financial advice, or tax advice. Every practice and every state has its own rules. So if you’re wondering how something applies to your situation, make sure to check in with an attorney, accountant, or another qualified professional who can give you guidance based on your specific circumstances.

Transcript:

Amanda (00:02)
Hey Danielle, welcome to the show. I’m so excited to have you.

Danielle (00:05)
Hi, Amanda. I’m very excited to be here and actually talk to you on your podcast today. It’ll be fun.

Amanda (00:10)
Yes.

Yeah, absolutely. I can’t imagine there are many people listening to my podcast who don’t know who you are, but you want to share a little bit about yourself and how you help therapists?

Danielle (00:21)
Yeah, so my name is Danielle Swim. ⁓ I run entrepreneurial therapists and I mainly help therapists that are filling their private practice and then scaling beyond one-to-one. So I started out really focusing on sharing my own story of how I started my own private practice and filled it. ⁓ And then as I started building in additional revenue streams, I got lots of questions around that. And so I started teaching.

therapists how to do that as well. So how to scale beyond the one-to-one model. I talk a lot about mindset work and how that’s a really important piece to start with before we go into the marketing and then moving into strategy from there. But yeah, I love what I do. I still see therapy clients. Like I’m in my private practice office right now as we’re recording this. So I still am very active clinically. And then I get to do this like really it’s just so fun what I get to do. I get to get on podcasts like this and talk to people like you.

and other therapists who are doing really cool things and it just lights me up. It’s really cool that I get to do all these fun things every week.

Amanda (01:27)
Yeah, it’s a nice way to just have a ton of variety. Even when I was working at college counseling centers, I always loved, like, I want to see individual clients, but then I also want to see couples and groups and do outreach and supervision. Like doing all of the things actually helps me, I think, do everything better instead of just focusing in on one thing. So think you and I are the same in that way of like, it is fun to still have everything a little bit in the mix of the things you love doing.

Danielle (01:45)
Right.

Yeah, and that’s not for everyone, I will say. But I think some people thrive really, really well in that environment ⁓ because they get bored or they just have this ability to handle a big capacity of moving pieces. I don’t get overwhelmed super easy. And so yeah, it keeps me very excited and on my toes for sure.

Amanda (01:57)
No.

Yeah. And so something that I’ve noticed a lot when I listen to your podcast, when I follow you on Instagram, and you just said it a little bit ago is the mindset coming before the strategy piece. And that’s something that I very much agree with. But I would love to hear your perspective on why does mindset need to come first? Because I think so many therapists I’ve talked to are like, I got it, I got it. I know I can do this. I know I should charge more. I know like freedom and all the stuff. But do you think people actually

understand the mindset stuff they need to work on or how often are you educating people on where mindset is truly one of the biggest blocks in their success.

Danielle (02:54)
Yeah, I think it’s at every level. Like I still constantly need to do mindset work myself. It looks very different than it did five years ago, for example. ⁓ But every new level that you reach, I think there’s new blocks to be undone. And I’m just, I have thicker skin. I’m able to deal with like the newer blocks because I’ve dealt with them through the years. But if you’re starting out, definitely, there’s like a ton of mindset work there. And therapists sometimes don’t love this part.

You know, because it’s like, we’re therapists, we understand. And mindset, everyone’s like, what does that even mean? You know, it’s not like a mental health diagnosis per se, but it really is like the version of you that wants to reach like a big audacious goal in the future isn’t the version who you are today. Like you really do have to change your identity. So there’s a lot of identity work that needs to be done. Your habits often need to change the people that you’re getting advice from.

often need to change. And that can make the people around you kind of uncomfortable if they start to notice changes in you like that. And it can make you uncomfortable too, because you might be getting reactions from other people around you because you’re acting different or you have this new dream. ⁓ But it really is the identity work. you know, ⁓ for myself, like I could have never seen myself start a podcast or even show up on Instagram. I’m just more introverted.

and I tend to be more shy and reserved in real life. So for me to have a microphone and be talking on a podcast just would never have been my identity. But I once heard, ⁓ I think Beyonce talks about this and Alex Cooper is a podcast host and I’ve heard her talk about it too, where you kind of have a different, almost like an alter ego who goes out and does some of the bigger work where you really have to be seen and it’s more protective.

Amanda (04:26)
Thank

Danielle (04:48)
but it’s just a different version of you that does have to show up to lead a team, to make the revenue that you’re going for, to be seen at the level you need to be seen at to succeed. And that’s what really shakes us up and scares a lot of therapists, understandably so, but it’s very worth working through.

Amanda (05:05)
Yeah, I agree with that so much because whether it’s been personal identity shifts I’ve had to make of, I joke about this quite often of I’m also very introverted, very shy, but I did musical theater in high school. And that was something where it was like, I could turn it on and like I could step into a role and have fun and like, I can play a role. And I do feel like that at times, not that I’m inauthentic in how I show up, but I do feel like I have to put on.

my online persona of how do I show up a little more energetic, a little more alive instead of how I might come across if you ran across me on the street, which would be quiet and probably very awkward. ⁓ But I think that that is like it does help to think about the fact that you can be the version that you do want to be. It just does take some shifts. ⁓ Even when I started hiring virtual assistants and expanding my team, like it was a whole new identity for me to

Danielle (05:34)
Yes.

Amanda (06:02)
manage someone to delegate tasks, especially because I’m used to doing everything myself and knowing that I could do a really good job if I do everything myself. But running a therapy practice, running coaching programs, doing podcasts, like I literally, if I did everything myself, I don’t know that I would be sleeping because there’s just too much to do.

Danielle (06:03)
bright.

Yes,

right. Yeah, exactly. And you’re very good at that. And I like that you teach that too about like the realities of you can’t do it all. And actually, if you do, it’ll keep you really stuck. But I think a mindset work is a ⁓ big one when we start hiring because people are always like, I don’t want to manage people. And that’s a big thing I hear. And it’s like, no matter what you do, you’re going to have to manage people. And I think therapists can actually be really good at that. But I remember actually writing

in a therapy Facebook group, I was like, feel like I’m a fish out of water managing my first team member. was a therapist I hired for my practice. And I have no idea what I’m doing. And it made me so anxious. And I was like, do they like me? Am I too overbearing? I too laissez faire? And this was the inner narrative that was coming up that was getting in the way of me marketing them and actually being a good leader. But I will say, I kind of make it sound really painful to do this work.

But I will say it’s actually really developed me in a beautiful way, personally, where I’m much better at my personal relationships that have nothing to do with work, because I’ve learned to be more direct and I’ve learned to really care about people in a different kind of way. ⁓ And so it does pay off when you do do it, not just in your business, which is very important, but also in who you are personally as well.

Amanda (07:44)
I find that business kicks up a lot of our attachment stuff and a lot of our pieces around worthiness and capabilities. And when we can just get some guidance, get some feedback on like, how do we communicate direct feedback? How do we communicate disappointment? How do we fire people who aren’t good fits anymore? Like the more we can learn those things, the more confident that, it makes us both in business and in life. And that’s a good thing to lean into of.

how do I do these things that are gonna help me as opposed to it might just be too hard, so I’m never gonna try.

Danielle (08:18)
Right. Yeah. And I think another mindset block that comes up is like, no one in my family has ever done this or, you know, no one in my family has made that kind of revenue or even been a business owner. I’m not surrounded by it. I don’t know anybody else doing it. And that’s where I’m like, you got to change your circle. We got to change that like ASAP, because that’s going to be a big piece of it. Because if you’re a quote unquote board of directors aren’t even in the field.

and have never done this before and they’re giving you advice, like what roadmap are you following that we’re going down? Like this is gonna feel so scattered and chaotic, which is why masterminds are great, joining group programs are great, just like building out your own board of directors that are like mentors and people you can have in your ear, also why I love podcasts, so you can be like, okay, they have a part of business or life that I want to get to someday.

So how can I get advice from where they’re at to really help build my own roadmap to where I need to be going?

Amanda (09:24)
Exactly, because I think it’s so different to like starting even private practice. Like I think still a lot of therapists don’t identify as business owners. They’re just like, I’m a therapist with a private practice, but there is a business to be run. And then if you do want to diversify revenue streams, there’s more types and different types of ways that you show up, ways that you market. so not being surrounded by people who get it, not being surrounded by people who

Danielle (09:33)
Yes.

Amanda (09:51)
want to go where you want to go. Like it really does. What I’ve noticed is like slow down the process. Like when I was only, you know, talking with family members or friends about what I was doing, I got encouragement, but no one knew how to help. No one knew what kind of like feedback to provide. They’re just like, cool, that’s great. Good luck. And that’s cool. But like no one was going to tell me like how to help things, which is when I started with getting my own individual coaching because I wanted

Danielle (10:09)
Yeah.

Amanda (10:20)
to do things better. I wanted to own more of a business and entrepreneur identity, not just being a therapist.

Danielle (10:26)
Yeah, it’s funny. I’m going to like a business conference in a couple of months and I was telling a family member that like I’m excited to go to this business conference where I’m going to learn about leadership and hiring and all the stuff like, you know, I didn’t learn in school. And this person was like, why? Why are you going to that? Just like didn’t understand. And he was like, do you actually need to know this stuff? Like he was so confused as to like why I was spending money and going and learning this stuff.

⁓ And I think before in the beginning of my journey that would have been so activating like wait am I doing the right thing? Should I not be doing this? Other people around me aren’t doing it and now I can just like separate myself from that and be like, ⁓ yeah, no I’m definitely supposed to be doing this. Other people don’t get it and I can still love them in a way that I want to but they’re just not gonna understand the side of me that involves my career and my ambition.

Amanda (11:12)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle (11:22)
and navigating that can be tricky, I think especially for like female therapists specifically.

Amanda (11:28)
Yeah, yeah, because you and I were talking a little bit before we hit record around like just the support and maybe even potentially like the judgment and confusion that we can get from family and friends, people who don’t understand why we’re signing up for the things we are, why we make the investments that we do, why we’re showing up on social media in specific ways. And so I know things I’ve experienced in my life and other therapists I’ve talked with, like it’s both that.

I think generally most therapists I’ve met, like we’re not used to being front and center, right? We literally chose jobs where it’s like, let me help you. Like I can be a part of the relationship, but it’s not about me. And so now as we start to take up more space and we talk about what we’re experts in and what our goals are, and some of us talk very transparently about our revenue, that there’s this potential for people in our personal lives to either support us, even if they don’t know what they’re supporting with or to judge us.

Danielle (12:02)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Amanda (12:26)
And I wonder how you’ve seen that in therapists that you support too, like how the fear of how they’re being perceived by people in their personal life impacts how they show up.

Danielle (12:27)
Right.

Yeah, I actually know like I know a therapist, YouTuber, and I know a big therapist content creator that have parents blocked on their accounts because they actually do not want parents to know what they’re doing for various reasons. And I think this is more common than I’ve realized because more I’m bringing it up now more with the therapist I’m like coaching. ⁓ But this is so nuanced.

Amanda (12:45)
Hmm.

Danielle (13:04)
It’s like you are showing up and following your dreams, but there is this reality for some people that you will be judged by people you love. And they will try to keep you in a box that feels very safe, you know, to them that they can try to keep you in. But one line I really like try to repeat is, you know, their ceiling is not your limit.

So you really have to remember that. Like their ceiling, and it might be a different generation or a different upbringing or whatever, the reason it’s different, does not need to be projected onto you as to where it’s going to limit you. But I would say most people that have found success that you look up to have experienced this as well. It’s just not talked about that much. I remember a New York Times bestseller talking about everyone called her business very little. They’d be like, how’s your little blog going? How’s your little…

coaching going that you’re doing? Why aren’t you staying home more with the kids, et cetera? Like she very much grew up in that environment. And someone asked her, when did people start taking your business more seriously? And she was like, when I became a New York Times bestseller, like it took 10 to 15 years for the people in my family to stop calling it little and to be recognized like, wow. And then they would start saying like, I always knew you were going to be successful. Like, I always knew you were. So the narrative starts to change.

Amanda (14:11)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Danielle (14:25)
And I think it’s just par for the course. And it’ll tell you a lot about the people around you. It’ll also trigger some people around you. ⁓ But I think it could also be very beautiful and healing for yourself to really choose yourself, choose your dreams, and still love the people that you want involved in your life along the way.

Amanda (14:43)
Absolutely. I mean, I think there’s both this like general conditioning, like as we’re talking about women in this example, like so many women are taught to play small or that like business is not for them. But then there’s like good therapist conditioning on top of that of like, this is what your role is, this is not what you should want for yourself. And so for those of us who are very ambitious and very much high achievers like

Danielle (14:51)
Yeah.

Amanda (15:10)
I think it is hard to have the big goals with also thinking about like, but am I doing it right? Like, is that what I’m supposed to do? How are other people going to perceive me? And I think it is, you know, when I started even my practice, there was again, the support around it, but no one really understood why I wanted to go bigger. They were like, you know, isn’t this like good enough? Like, oh, how did you even get into that other thing? Who taught you that? But it wasn’t out of.

Danielle (15:20)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Amanda (15:39)
curiosity, it was just out of confusion of why is just one thing not good enough for you? Because yeah, there’s not a lot of, we don’t see a lot of women entrepreneurs who are super successful. And when we do, we hear stories like that of like, you’re cute little business and well, how did your husband support you with that? It’s just like, I don’t love that.

Danielle (15:43)
Right.

Yes.

Yeah,

right. That’s awkward questions too. But it is like, you know, there can be a lot of gender dynamics that come up in it, you know, and it’s just like breaking the mold. I always use the word delusion and it resonates, I think very well with this. Like you got to be a little delusional to be an entrepreneur. Like you see a vision that’s literally not part of your reality and you go after it. There’s sprinkles of some delusion in that.

But there’s like jokes in that too. let’s have strategy with delusion that we can create a life that we actually want to create and go do that. ⁓ But that can also be hard for other people to see and witness you doing that because it triggers and brings up stuff in them. But it’s really beautiful when you’re able to do it and like change your own family tree and how many people you can help along in the process of doing that.

Amanda (16:54)
because I for sure, again, consume some of your content around like how you are working on creating generational wealth in your family. Like just the things that we are able to change, not just from societal standpoints, from family dynamics, but we really can change, you know, other things financially when we do allow ourselves to chase after our very delusional dreams, which, you know, can very much come true, which is so exciting.

Danielle (17:19)
Yeah, and I think it’s funny because last night I woke up this morning to a comment on a reel ⁓ that it looks like it’s a newer therapist comment on it and said something like, ⁓ I didn’t come here to make money. I came here to help people. I get comments like that here and there sometimes if there’s a reel about if I talk about numbers at all. And I think it’s so interesting, this whole

mindset around money in our field. And I do think there is a lot of nuance with a statement like that. Because if you’re a therapist who you don’t have to make six figures, let’s say, because you have ⁓ a partner who has income that’s able to support or whatever the situation may be, where you’re like, you don’t have a ton of pressure on your practice or your business to make a lot of money, I think that’s so beautiful because you don’t have that pressure.

But I think it’s also unfair to the therapists that do have that pressure. So as I’m teaching about revenue and stuff, nobody else is paying my mortgage. Nobody else is going to save for my daughter’s college fund. Nobody else is going to pay off my student loan. So I don’t have that kind of support coming in. ⁓ And so I can get annoyed or frustrated when I see people that don’t have as much responsibility talk about things like that.

because I do think it is a place of like, you just have the option to not be focused that much on finances yet, and maybe their life will change and they’ll need to focus on it more. But I do think most therapists get to a place in their private practice career where those student loans are kicking in, now you’re buying a house, now you’re saving for college, now you’re paying off your own debt, et cetera. And you’re really looking at money like, still wanna help people. Absolutely, that doesn’t go away. ⁓

And how can I do it in a way that also helps my family and myself that feels very authentic, that’s very ethical, ⁓ and in a way that really helps the community at large. And that’s what I really strive for, is a place where we can do both and it’s not just one or the other.

Amanda (19:27)
Exactly. Because so much when I was starting my private practice and I set my fees very intentionally below everyone else, because I was like, I just need to get clients ASAP ⁓ for financial reasons. I was seeing too many clients. It’s the same story all of us have felt in some capacity of sure, you’re full, but you’re burnt out. And now you’re still not even making the money that you really need to pay down student debts and credit cards. And if you have a

Danielle (19:38)
Yeah.

Right.

Amanda (19:56)
So it’s like I don’t understand where there is this sense of like you should struggle or you should expect to struggle and again how much of that is because therapy is traditionally a field filled with women ⁓ But yeah, so it’s both like we’re supposed to be giving and if that’s supposed to be our primary goal, I suppose it’s like to only help people as opposed to like I can help people and

Danielle (20:04)
Yeah.

Bye.

Amanda (20:24)
earn an amazing amount of money and support my family.

Danielle (20:27)
Right, and I know, and so do you, lot of therapists that make a good income in this field, and man, they help a lot of people. They’re not sitting here on a beach with a margarita and a laptop, like we see sometimes on other influencer pages. They are working, and they are really helping their caseload and the people that they see, and the clients that come into my office this week. I am working. I am working to help them.

Amanda (20:34)
Yeah.

Yep. ⁓

Danielle (20:53)
And so that doesn’t go away when you raise your fees or you go build additional revenue streams. Like that is still so, so present if you want it to be as part of your journey and vision for what you’re trying to build.

Amanda (21:06)
I think that’s a huge part of one of the biggest mindset shifts I had to make and so many of the therapists I coach have had to make is just because you are also now thinking about what I need and what I want, it can feel, right, ⁓ selfish, quote unquote. Like just because you’re thinking of those things, doesn’t mean your goal of helping other people actually went away. Like those two can coexist, even though so many of us have been used to prioritizing others’ needs over our own.

Danielle (21:33)
Yeah,

yeah, it’s very freeing to do both. And I do think with Instagram, I’ll be interested, like you and I can talk in 10 years and see maybe how with podcasts, Instagram, additional revenue streams really in the face of these younger therapists coming out of grad school now, how that’s going to impact the field. And it could be in a very beautiful way where therapists just have more options than they did even 15 years ago where this really wasn’t talked about as much.

Amanda (21:36)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. And so because there are so many options, like, yeah, when I was starting my private practice, I got on Instagram, not for the purpose of like, let me market my practice. But because I joined all these free Facebook groups to learn about private practice and so many people were like, here’s my handle on Instagram, go follow me. So was like, I guess therapists are on Instagram these days. I went on Instagram and I started seeing coaches. And again, this was 2022. So I feel like even in the past four years, so much has changed.

But I had no idea there were such things as diversifying your revenue. I’m like, people are creating courses, people are doing workshops, people are coaching. Like, wow, that’s so cool to see all of the potential. And so I agree, I think it’ll be cool to see newer grads to just see that potential earlier on and see what comes from that. But the thing that I have noticed that is hard for a lot of therapists who want to scale outside of therapy is this,

Danielle (22:36)
Hmm.

Amanda (23:00)
fear of failure, sure, everyone else seems to be doing it, because then our algorithm gets biased and we see all these people doing it and seemingly looking so successful with so much ease. And then we try something and it doesn’t immediately kick off. And then it’s like, well, do I sucked? Should I actually not do this? And I think that generally just like the comparisons we can do on social media, it’s so easy to make them and it’s so easy to just assume.

Danielle (23:08)
Yes.

Right.

Amanda (23:29)
there’s not space for us or the field is over saturated with coaching or courses or whatever it might be. So navigating either like fear of disappointment or disappointment itself, how has that shown up for you? What have you had to work through to either not listen so much to that voice or to push through even when you have felt it?

Danielle (23:51)
Yeah, I think that’s so good. Like, I wish I could rewind and repeat what you just said, because it’s so good, I’m like marinating on it. And what has helped me, if I can summarize it, is just like being okay with being misunderstood. Like that, if I can be okay with like somebody misunderstanding something or me learning or making a mistake publicly, if I can be okay with that,

I can overcome 98 % of my own mindset blocks, because now I don’t have a fear of being seen. Now I’m okay if somebody doesn’t get what I’m doing. Now I’m okay if someone’s unsatisfied with something I said. Either I need to grow from it and learn, or they misunderstood in some fashion. And like, I can survive both of those scenarios very well. ⁓ And so that can help me get more confidence to show up. But I will say, I will never lie and say that it’s gonna be easy.

You know, you do see the highlight reels of people filling up right away, launching a course and having the best launch of their life right away. And none of the revenue streams that I’ve done have been easy. I would never describe one of them as easy. They all have required me to work hard and to grow in certain fashions. I almost every live launch, I’m like, this isn’t going to work.

This is a disaster. can’t believe I’m doing, and I’ve done so many at this point. And so like, it’s not for the faint of heart. It really isn’t. Entrepreneurship in general, putting yourself out there, trying to scale or grow a private practice. But it’s so much easier to me to do it this way because the benefits of it really outweigh the cons if we’re comparing it to me staying in community mental health.

Amanda (25:15)
Yep.

Danielle (25:42)
where I just wouldn’t have, I don’t think I’d have a job still because I would have had to take so much time off for life events, et cetera. It would have been hard to keep a job. And so the flexibility for me is like, can, you know, agree to that with some of the stuff I have to work through personally.

Amanda (26:02)
Yeah, which I think is huge and something I’ve heard from a lot of the coaches out there that I admire is that aspect of, yeah, entrepreneurship is not easy. All we do see is the highlight reel. And even for those of us with coaching programs, I think it can come off as, you know, we have all this knowledge that we’re trying to download into people. And we have, I think also part of our like ethical duty in that is like the emotional knowledge to share that as well as it’s not just the

you know, here’s how to set up a funnel. Here’s how to do an email sequence. It’s also, hey, it’s okay if this doesn’t go amazingly the first time. And like, yes, this is really hard. And yes, this is really scary. Like setting up tech and setting up funnels is almost like the easy part of like, you know, point, click, type some things here. The hard part is the emotional work and really being rooted in your why of like, again, why am I doing this? Why is this important to me? Whether that is

Danielle (26:41)
Yeah.

Amanda (27:02)
to reach and help more people, to diversify my finances, to just whatever that is. I think that has to be what people are rooted in, not so much like, but I need those 10 to 100K months I keep seeing on social media. Like that should just be right around the corner. And it’s like, no, it’s taken me so long with my coaching programs, with my course that I do frequent launches for. It’s taken so long for that to feel like I can even start to trust

that that will be not a fluke. Like that’s the work I’m doing in my coaching and my therapy these days is how do I trust that I built all the right systems and like literally the numbers and the data show things are working exactly how they should be. But my brain, my financial trauma growing up tells me like, well, it’s going to be good now, but then it’s going to like all go away. And so my mindset stuff is like, no, actually like it’s safe.

Danielle (27:32)
Hmm.

Yeah

Right.

Yah, yah.

Amanda (27:59)
it’s safe and I can like surrender in the safety. Obviously that doesn’t mean I’m gonna pull back and stop trying all the things and doing all the things. It just means maybe I don’t have to freak out and do things from like panic mode. Cause I’m just like you every launch I do. I’m like, no one’s gonna sign up. Everyone hates what I’m putting out. Everyone’s annoyed with me, but I still show up anyway. Cause I know that it does actually work.

Danielle (28:11)
right.

Yeah, and it’s like we can separate it at this point because we’re seasoned in it. you know, before I had trouble separating that, where I would think that and I’m like, that’s true. And now I can separate and think that and be like, that’s not true, Danielle, keep going. Because I can mute that voice a lot more. Jasmine Starr has a really good quote somewhere too, where she’s like, I hate creating content, but I hate being poor more. And that’s all like so direct. And it is this ⁓ belief that I think can be helped

Amanda (28:45)
Mm-mm. Yeah.

Danielle (28:51)
for therapists to hear too. It’s like, you can trust yourself. So like if somehow Instagram goes away tomorrow, I can trust myself that I’m gonna figure out wherever my audience goes next. And if that is like riding a horse around a field or whatever weird thing is required next, like I’m gonna do it. And I just know I’m gonna get in front of my audience and I’m gonna figure out how to talk to them.

Amanda (29:11)
Mm-hmm

Danielle (29:19)
learn to just trust myself because it is so unpredictable, the economy, the systems, the online world, ⁓ et cetera. It can be very scary, but when you learn to trust yourself and you become seasoned in that, that’s where you can start to fall back more and be like, I’m going to handle whatever comes next because I’ve handled everything so far. We’re going to figure it out.

Amanda (29:38)
Yeah,

yeah, it’s the hugest thing I’ve rooted myself in in the past, probably like six to eight months is like, there are so many levers to pull at any given point in time. Like it’s not just this one thing didn’t work, so it’s never gonna work and I should just stop doing anything. It’s okay, that one didn’t work, but what if we tried this or that or that or that? So it’s just, you do have so much ability and so much creativity when it comes to what you do.

Danielle (29:50)
Yeah.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Amanda (30:06)
in your business. And I think that’s helpful to remember that just because Instagram marketing works for some therapists and filling out their private practice caseload, that doesn’t mean if it doesn’t work for you, that you’re not going to be successful. It just means we find what lever works for you, whether that’s SEO and AIO, whether that’s networking. Like there’s just so many more opportunities than the one thing you see work for someone else in a six second reel.

Danielle (30:18)
Yes.

and then

Yeah, and I did. I got an email this week from someone who was like, I’ve done four therapy programs or courses so far on how to fill your practice. None of them have worked for me. They all claim to have the answer. ⁓ And what makes yours different is basically what they were asking. And should I join? And I think that’s so real when you start to follow all the coaches and they they all do have different advice. And what I find is all of them can be right.

but you just have to decide which strategy works best for you. And then when you go into a program, you just decide that was a good decision. And then you decide this is gonna work and you’re gonna follow the curriculum until you get the results. And it’s just that decision where I think we get nervous about like, is this for me? Is this gonna work? And that indecision really blocks a lot of people from taking action.

Amanda (31:24)
Yes, yes. also just there’s a copywriter I’ve worked with in the past. She recently put out a reel, I think in the past week of there’s so many of these programs or these courses out there in general. the number two who these days are now creating like and you can download my custom GPT, which will like walk you through how to make a plan for this or do copy for this or whatever. And she’s like, but that’s not the

point, like when you are just downloading what worked for someone else and exactly the way it worked for them, like literally inherently, how could that work for you? Because that’s an individual and that worked for their business, their niche, whatever, but yours is different. We’re all unique in our niche, our personality, our preferred work style. And so while I think obviously programs like the ones that we offer are helpful in laying out options and you

Danielle (32:02)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Amanda (32:22)
stats and research of what’s working now. I think both of us incorporate some aspects of getting like guest experts. Like there has to be this, I can’t even think of a word for it, like discernment of like, okay, here are options, but what is actually going to work for me? And again, what is the thing I choose to double down on as opposed to trying a little bit of everything? Cause I think that’s where it starts to feel.

chaotic internally of I tried these 17 things, but none of it worked. It’s like, well, did you try one and finish it and follow it through? Or did you try it for like a week and then pivot? And it’s fine if you pivot, but not if that was the thing that was going to really work and be effective and not take so much of your time and money and whatever it might be.

Danielle (32:56)
right.

Yeah. And I think we’re conditioned to always want more because of what we see on social media. More followers, more clients, more money, more revenue streams. And it’s like, how can you improve with the people you already have? If you just have two therapy clients, how can you do the best possible work in the world with these two therapy clients? If you only have 10 followers, how can you make the best content for 10 followers? And that’s why I miss it. I have to remind myself of this. Like, how can you just serve the people that you already

Amanda (33:10)
Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Danielle (33:37)
are have in front of you, and that’s how you get more. And we can not even talk about ads or anything else, just serve the people that you have in front of you really, really well. And that’s a strategy a lot of people aren’t doing, because we’re always talking about more. If we can stick with that, think that will get you results.

Amanda (33:41)
Yes.

Yes. Yeah. Because relationship building at the end of the day is what we’re doing, especially in therapy. It’s what you’re doing. If you want to add on coaching, even if you’re selling digital products, like there’s still some type of relationship you’re building. we can’t forget the power of showing up and truly delivering a service and building that relationship at the cost of the vanity metrics or the big income numbers or whatever.

Danielle (34:09)
Yeah.

Amanda (34:23)
might be because if you don’t have that good relationship, like you’re going to lose even the like tiny momentum that you have built.

Danielle (34:30)
Right. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s a skill. It’s a skill to nurture the people you already have and then have seasons where you’re focused on growth, where you can get more people in, higher scale followers, whatever it might be, and then go back to nurturing. That’s the cycle I try to be in because that’s the only way I seem to balance both.

Amanda (34:52)
Exactly. It’s different seasons for different things. We can’t just be growing all the time. Like even plants have, you know, stop seasons or they stop growing. They stop producing flowers. They’re healthy. They’re alive. They’re fine. But that’s just, it’s the way nature is. We can’t be in one mode forever.

Danielle (34:59)
Yum.

Great.

Yeah, I love that analogy. That’s really good.

Amanda (35:12)
I’m a plant person. so excited that spring is here and things are starting to bloom. yeah. Well, you’ve shared such good tips and stories around again, like why mindset is a huge component for people to really also lean into in addition to strategy. Again, strategy is so important, but we have to work on all the other blocks that are coming up, ways that it’s hard for us to show up, ways that it’s hard for us to chase our dreams. Is there anything else that you feel like?

Danielle (35:15)
Yay! Yeah.

Amanda (35:39)
You’re often telling therapists things that you haven’t shared already that you want to leave listeners with today.

Danielle (35:45)
I think I need this reminder often too that you do constantly have to be working on your mind, like as an entrepreneur in terms of what are you consuming, where are you learning, who are you listening to, are you consuming too much, too little. But if you can guard your mind really, really well and kind of live in your own little world.

It really does. It’s very protective in that way. And so if you aren’t doing anything to work on your mindset yet, I would start there, like this week. I would do something, whether it’s visualization, meditation, journaling, joining a group that also is really high level and working in their mindset because it makes such a big difference. But this is something like I have to do weekly. And I notice when I stop doing it and I easily can stop.

and then I lose it and I come back to it and it’s a big difference in how I work and how I feel when I’m doing it again.

Amanda (36:42)
Yeah, 100%. That’s where even with my coach these days, like as we talk about, you know, what do you want for the next launch? Like what’s your revenue goal or how do you celebrate? Like your funnel working really well. Like she always brings it back too. But your specific goal, your specific challenges again, to let in that message of safety, to let in that message of this gets to be easy. Like it’s all of the reminders of the mindset work that needs to happen alongside.

Danielle (37:02)
Mmm.

Amanda (37:10)
everything that you see on paper. So I 100 % agree with all of that.

Danielle (37:14)
Yeah. Yeah, love. We want this to be easy. How can we make this fun for you as the founder, as the entrepreneur? Yeah, that’s a really good one.

Amanda (37:18)
Yes.

We’ll tell the listeners where they can follow you and learn more about your story and how you can help therapists.

Danielle (37:29)
Yeah, so I have a podcast as well, the Entrepreneurial Therapist Podcast. A new episode comes out every Wednesday talking about mindset marketing and systems. So you can find me there. ⁓ And then I’ll also give you guys a link to the newsletter that I send out every Thursday for therapists where I just give like some of my best strategies in my Therapist Thursday newsletter so we can stay connected that way too.

Amanda (37:54)
Yeah, you have lots of helpful resources, especially with SEO, ⁓ these days and how those are all shifting. I just watched the recording of your webinar the other week and there’s just so much good information that you are able to, I think you are very skilled with taking high level complex stuff and making it into tangible, like what can you do today, this month, this week, whatever that is. So absolutely, if you are listening and you’re not already following Danielle’s podcast or on her newsletter, go ahead and check those out. Thanks so much for being here today.

Danielle (38:03)
good.

Awesome, thank you Amanda.

Yeah, thank you.