Happy, Healthy, & Wealthy Therapists | Ep 33: Building a Therapy Practice That Gives You Dopamine Hits

Released: 05/29/2026

Show Notes:

In this episode, Amanda sits down with Tiffany Paul, LCSW, to talk about building a therapy practice that actually supports your nervous system instead of overwhelming it. Tiffany shares her journey from community mental health burnout and chronic pain to creating a thriving private pay practice centered around ketamine-assisted EMDR intensives. Together, they explore why highly sensitive therapists often do better with depth work than high volume caseloads, how therapy intensives can feel more sustainable and clinically effective, and the role SEO and niche messaging played in quickly filling Tiffany’s practice. They also unpack the difference between “fixing” clients versus co regulating with them, and why creating a practice that genuinely fits you can completely change your relationship with the work.

About Tiffany Paul:

Tiffany Paul, LCSW, is a trauma therapist and consultant based in Oakland, California, specializing in EMDR, ketamine-assisted psychotherapy, and her personal favorite, ketamine-assisted EMDR intensives. After 15 years in community mental health and hospital settings, she left traditional therapy entirely and built a practice designed around depth, sustainability, and her own nervous system. As a highly sensitive person with lived experience in healing, she brings both clinical expertise and personal understanding to her work with clients and the therapists she consults with. She helps both groups do the same thing, work at the depth they desire without outpacing the nervous system getting there.

3 Key Takeaways:

1. Building a sustainable therapy practice starts with creating a business model that supports your nervous system, not just your income goals, especially if you’re a highly sensitive therapist.
2. Combining ketamine-assisted therapy with EMDR intensives can create deeper, faster client transformation while allowing therapists to work in a way that feels more focused, effective, and energizing.
3. Clear niche messaging, strong SEO, and confidence in your offer can attract ideal private pay intensive clients without relying on hard sales tactics.

Connect with Tiffany:

• The EMDR Clinician’s Roadmap to Ketamine-Assisted Practice
• KAP Curious! A Webinar for EMDR Therapists
• Instagram: @emdrwithtiffany
• Website: https://www.tiffanypaulpsychotherapy.com/

Connect with Amanda:

• Follow on Instagram: @amandakbcoaching
• Check out the Amanda KB Coaching website

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Sponsors:

• This episode is sponsored by Alma – learn more here
• This episode is sponsored by Jane – use code: AMANDA2MO for a 2-month grace period

Resources & Links:

SEO for Therapists Membership

Therapy Intensives Academy

Happy, Healthy, & Wealthy Mastermind

Free Training: 3 Steps to Booking Your First Therapy Intensive

Free Guide: 3 Steps to Double Your Income

SEO Freebie

Just a quick heads up, everything I share in this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. It’s not legal advice, financial advice, or tax advice. Every practice and every state has its own rules. So if you’re wondering how something applies to your situation, make sure to check in with an attorney, accountant, or another qualified professional who can give you guidance based on your specific circumstances.

Transcript:

Amanda (00:00)
All right, Tiffany, I am so excited to chat with you today. I we’ve been trying to get this on the books for a little bit, and now you’ve got time from your busy, busy practice, which we’re going to talk all about today. So thanks so much for joining.

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (00:12)
Yes, thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here. ⁓

Amanda (00:14)
Yeah, yeah. Can you share just very briefly kind of where

you are, what it is that you do, and yeah, what you’re going to share about today?

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (00:23)
Yeah, so my name is Tiffany Paul. I’m a licensed clinical social worker. I am located in Oakland, California, and I do ketamine-assisted EMDR therapy intensives.

Amanda (00:36)
which is super exciting. You’ve been very in demand. We were just talking about that off camera of you really didn’t have to do much to market and fill your practice outside of offer what you offer and do a little bit of SEO work that we worked on together. So before we dive into that, because I think that’s what we’re going to spend most of our time talking about, ⁓ what was your journey into private practice? Can you share just kind of where you were and what made you leave?

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (01:04)
Absolutely. Yeah, so I started like many of us in community mental health ⁓ So I was in the community mental health sphere for about eight years the majority of that time I worked at a safety not hospital in Oakland and an IOP intensive outpatient program as a therapist there ⁓ And I you know

I have a sensitive nervous system, like also many therapists, and I found that my nervous system was unhappy in that environment. ⁓ Whether it was like too much demand on my nervous system, or honestly also like not actually being able to help people is also stressful on one’s nervous system, right? So I was basically just putting out fires and

Amanda (01:40)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (02:00)
supporting stabilization. ⁓ So I was simultaneously overwhelmed and underwhelmed ⁓ and bored while also like feeling like my nervous system was fried. So I knew that this was not the place I was going to stay forever, ⁓ but I didn’t necessarily know what my next step was. ⁓ Yeah, so I’ll pause there. That is my background.

Amanda (02:08)
Hmm?

Yeah, yeah, which you said a lot of important things, think, outside of we hear a lot of like the, I was burning out and like, just like this wasn’t working for me or like working too much and not getting paid enough. Like there is also a like job satisfaction component of you could be still doing the work and maybe the hours are okay, or you in theory are focusing on what you want to focus on. But, you know, it’s not at the level.

that you want to be like, actually, you don’t have much control over your ability to help someone or there’s too much management and just like if the work doesn’t match your nervous system. And yeah, I agree. A lot of us therapists are recovering from our own trauma. And that’s probably why I know it’s why I got in the field of like, I want to learn about myself and then, ⁓ actually, I want to help other people do that too. Yeah, I don’t think we pay attention to that part enough of like, does

the work I’m doing and how I’m doing it actually fit. You know, how I not just want to work, but also how I want to live, like that’s huge.

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (03:32)
Yeah, yeah. And for me, a turning point was I had sort of like a midlife moment where I turned 40 and also had some changes in my family composition and just like big changes in my life, right? And it felt like everything kind of just needed to change. I knew I needed to get out for a while, right? But something about this moment in my life kind of lit a spark.

where I said to myself, like, now is the moment. And I had burned out, et cetera, from other jobs in the past. And I had actually taken on like a bridge job. So I left community mental health. I left the safety net hospital. And I went to like a private hospital for just one year. And the reason I decided that I would be okay with going is because I knew I wasn’t going to stay. And it was specifically a trauma.

So, whereas at the other places I was at, I didn’t feel like I got to do what I kind of felt like was real therapy. At this new program where I was at for a year, it was only trauma. It people who were diagnosed with PTSD. And I got to do EMDR. I was like, I was only doing EMDR ⁓ with folks. So I got like really good experience working with a lot of different people.

Amanda (04:29)
Hmm.

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (04:57)
and working with colleagues that also were doing this type of work. ⁓ And with that bridge, that gave me a little bit more of the confidence and space to launch my own EMDR practice.

Amanda (05:11)
Yeah. So you had the clinical skill. You actually got to feel more confident doing this work in this way and seeing your clients actually have some meaningful change compared to, I don’t know about you. I would imagine this is your experience, but anytime I worked at a college counseling center before private practice and anytime we sent the college students to an IOP or even these days in my private practice, I hear like 40 through 60 year olds go into IOPs. Everyone always says like,

I feel worse. Like I don’t actually feel like that was helpful. ⁓ I don’t know if that was your experience, but it just sounds like even if we have the skills, even if there is this like intensive support, it doesn’t actually always meet where the client is at and what they’re actually meeting. But here you are doing just a one year contract, actually being able to support people. And that gave you again, more confidence to move into private practice. But how did the business side?

of private practice feel for you.

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (06:09)
Yeah.

Right. Well, so I was doing this like one year of trauma therapy at this hospital and I came into the problem that a lot of folks in our world talk about, which is high caseload and the EMDR really is best in more than a 50 minute session. Right. So

I was seeing, you know, I had a caseload of like 30 people that I was to see once a week. And not to mention all the fun aspects of working for a company like staff meetings and whatever other kind of meetings, there was always a meeting and documentation, all types of sort of extra things that I might not need to do in a certain way, you know, in my own business.

And I actually, decided to leave within at about a year because it wasn’t actually a contract. was my own, my contract with myself. I decided to leave as soon as I started to feel like, here it comes again. I’m burning out, right? So this time I didn’t allow myself to crash and burn because I knew I had an exit plan, even if it was not fully formed yet. For me, what burning out,

Amanda (07:14)
that.

Yeah.

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (07:33)
looks like is all the typical symptoms, but for me I have chronic pain. And so I get very physically ill when I’m over capacity. And that had happened to me three times in my career where I had to go out on leave. ⁓ Once I had to abruptly leave a job with like no notice because I couldn’t come back after leave. ⁓ So I being 40 at that time, I’m not doing that anymore.

Amanda (08:00)
you

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (08:03)
So as soon as I noticed that while this 30 client a week, I love the EMDR, I love my clients, I love the program in a lot of ways, I personally cannot do this and I’m going to start falling behind and I’m going to start getting sick. And that’s when I found your program. The Intensive Growth Blueprint it was at the time. ⁓

And I just knew, think from listening to podcasts and scrolling Instagram and just getting sort of connected through the resources online, I knew that therapists were doing it a different way. Some therapists were doing it a different way. And I just knew that I had to do it a different way. could not like replicate what was happening in the agency. I could not see 20 to 30 clients a week.

And that is also is very expensive to live where I live in the Bay Area. So I needed to make more money than I was used to like asking for, right? And that the only way to make these two things happen and to feel more clinically like satisfied and to have good results with my clients is that I had to do therapy intensives. So I started your program. started ⁓

building out sort of the back end of my practice. And yeah, for me, the biggest thing I got from those like first three months in your program, which by the way, within three months of quitting my job, I was making 10K a month. Yeah. And I credit that to one community, right? So being not only with

Amanda (09:49)
Love it.

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (09:59)
in the room with you, but in the room with many other therapists doing the same work. So that kind of corresponds with like mindset work too. I didn’t feel like I had too much of a mindset block around this, but doing something alone, it’s like, that feels like a block. Like I need people around me, right? ⁓ To inspire me to like just feel, I don’t know, maybe it’s co-regulation. ⁓

Amanda (10:27)
Yeah.

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (10:31)
Yeah, so the community was a really important piece of my following through on what I wanted to do here. And then the website and SEO development was absolutely huge. I think I kind of lucked out because EMDR is, it was and is in high demand. And also we haven’t chatted about the ketamine piece yet, but as soon as I quit my job, I also trained in CAP.

And that is also a rapidly growing in-demand modality. So with your guidance on building a website, having good SEO, and my SEO pointing towards EMDR and CAP intensives, I found that I didn’t have to sell my intensives at all.

Amanda (11:27)
Thank

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (11:29)
People are coming to me and understanding, think, especially with the CAP piece, understanding that sessions would be longer than 50 minutes.

So for me, I did feel some tension around like, how am going to sell these EMDR intensives? ⁓ And I tried that for a bit and I wasn’t great at it because I’m frankly not a great salesperson. Or at least I wasn’t at that point, right? I was still new at it. But the cap thing really sold the intensives for me along with the SEO.

Amanda (12:09)
Yeah, to your credit too, like anyone who has been in a room with you and who has looked at your website, like you also have a beautiful website, it’s beautifully designed, you got some nice brand photos, and I know you just took some new ones and maybe you’re updating those, but there is still a lot of marketing work you put together and I think that there’s so, so much. And yeah, I think like the time you and I have spent looking at

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (12:12)
Bye.

you much.

Amanda (12:34)
your wording of how do I define my niche and my ideal client, like the thoughtfulness and intentionality you put behind there is I think why it made it so, is another reason it made it so easy to work with you. It’s not just like, Tiffany does these great things, but it’s also like your ideal person could see exactly how you got them and why, why this is also the way you work, why you do now the integrated ketamine assisted EMDR intensives instead of just.

we could do this, we could do that, but like, no, like you, you have a lot of belief in what it is you offer and why. And like that, in addition to cap and EMDR, like sexy modalities these days, like, yeah, it just, makes it really easy for people to say yes to working with you.

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (13:15)
Yeah.

Yeah, and guess I should, that’s, you. And ⁓ I guess that is the part that I have been working a lot on and has been the biggest learning curve for me is marketing. ⁓ And I think when I was referring to like selling intensives, I was in my mind thinking about the verbal pitch, right? The verbal pitch to new clients. ⁓

And so I found that, through our work together, that if I can pitch it online, which is way easier for an introverted person or someone who does not want to feel pushy, right, then they’re very clear about what I offer before they get to me. I don’t, I, that I just answer whatever their questions are, but they’ve already decided when they’ve landed on me, like it’s in the,

All of my copy is I do ketamine assisted EMDR intensives that are this many hours. I don’t take insurance. It’s kind of like all I say on my profiles. ⁓ So people coming to me are very clear on what I do and that they want something that is more of a consolidated treatment. And that is the intensive model. So yeah.

Amanda (14:26)
Yeah.

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (14:45)
the marketing has been big learning curve and it’s working. So I keep doing it.

Amanda (14:49)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yes, exactly. And this piece too around, again, a huge part of your reason for wanting to do intensives is not just because you see how clients can move so much more quickly in their therapeutic progress with them, but also again, because it works for you, for you as someone with chronic pain, as even a highly sensitive person, it is hard to sit with

30 clients a week and hold so much pain when you are a highly sensitive person. I think that’s something people miss. It’s almost feeling like that’s not a good enough reason to want to change around your caseload. And on the flip side of that, I’ve also heard some people have that concern around intensives of like, well, isn’t that going to be really hard for me to do like this really deep work with people and then potentially never see them again? Or, you know, isn’t the intensive going to be exhausting for me? Like,

how is working intensively actually helped my chronic illness, chronic pain, high sensitivity? So can you speak on that piece of how does it work and feel for you?

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (15:58)
Yeah, I totally get that being like a first impression that folks might have, like how do you sit with someone for four hours? ⁓ But I mean, everyone’s nervous system is different. For me and for folks that kind of fit that highly sensitive profile, like most of us do better in depth, right? So a one-on-one conversation about meaningful things with a friend.

feels way better and maybe even energizing than more of a small talk conversation with a group of people. That’s sort of how I compare the two, right? So an intensive is like that one-on-one depth work, which yes, we are doing in a 50 minute model as well, but we are able to really dive into like.

we’re really in the room together. Like folks are so vulnerable by the time we’re halfway through the intensive, we are right there with each other the whole time. And for me, it just sort of locks me in. I really get into a zone that ⁓ feels actually energizing, especially also, you know, so the…

Amanda (16:55)
Yeah.

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (17:19)
I don’t get exhausted during an intensive. If I were to schedule several back to back, like yes, I would get home and probably be like, wow, I’m doing too much, but I don’t have to do that. Right. and I get to focus on like one person or two people in one day.

Amanda (17:26)
Yeah, right. Yes.

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (17:37)
rather than having to like attune to several different nervous systems in one day to remember several different people’s histories in one day. ⁓ Yeah, like taking in different energy, right? Some person comes in high, some person comes in low, some person comes in like with a crisis, right?

Amanda (17:52)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (18:00)
In an intensive, you’re just getting one presentation and you can attune to that and be there with it. So for me, that’s way easier on my nervous system. Yeah. Yeah.

Amanda (18:13)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I totally agree. I think it’s a lot of the switching and then even like the logistics of that of when you’re doing some really good work with one client, but part of your eye is on the clock of like, ⁓ shit, I’ve got another client coming in in five minutes and we’re going over. Like even that makes like for me, anytime I’ve ran over in like an hourly session, it throws a wrench in like the whole rest of my day. Cause now I don’t feel like, okay, I don’t have time to…

regulate and integrate myself between moving between clients. ⁓ And now everyone’s running a couple of minutes over, like it just messes up everything. Whereas yeah, in intensive is I’m locked in with probably one, occasionally two people in one day. And like, that’s it. Like there’s not a bunch of switching and back and forth and running over. Like you actually have the time, again, not just for doing the work with the clients, but also taking care of yourself, which again is huge. And I think a lot of

A lot of therapists don’t focus enough on that part of how are we taking care of ourselves in our own work days.

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (19:16)
Yeah. And because the work is so much more effective, I’m also getting a nice dope being hit. Right? So like I actually leave feeling like I feel excited. Right? I feel like I have accomplished something and not just clocking in the hours of, you know, verbal processing or teaching skills. Right? I’m like, I leave feeling.

Amanda (19:24)
Yeah!

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (19:47)
better and so does the client and that’s just so rewarding.

Amanda (19:52)
Yeah. And so you kind of said this already in terms of, you know, CAP in and of itself is kind of an intensive model anyway, because the, the dosing sessions are longer. People usually expect to do like an integration session if not same day, well, no, not same day, if not next day, probably same week. Um, and so already this kind of fits into the intensive model of seeing people for multiple hours and potentially multiple days in a given week.

but what has it looked like for you to play around with different models of like, what does it look like for you? Cause I think that’s where a lot of therapists get tripped up to is how many hours am I doing in a day? How many hours in a week? And kind of the logistics are what keep them held back more than anything. So how have you played with yours? Cause I know you’ve done a lot of playing with what your packages are.

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (20:46)
Absolutely, and I’m

frankly still playing and I think I will continue to But I am getting like more and more information about what works ⁓ So I’ll say there’s sort of two models of how I’ll work with a client depending on Frankly their Time money energy resources goals, right? So a lot of it is based on what they’re coming in with ⁓

Amanda (20:49)
Yeah.

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (21:14)
which model we decide to go with. One is working intensively, right? Which is this concept of working in longer sessions. So I have, I would say about half of the people that I work with are seeing me actually weekly, but they’re seeing me for two hours, right? So, or three hours. So we might do a ketamine assisted EMDR session. The minimum amount of time I do is two hours.

And it’s not a psychedelic dose when we’re using a low dose ketamine in combination with the EMDR processing. looks like a regular EMDR session with a bit of ketamine on board. And so those are incredibly powerful sessions. we, as we know, if we do two hours of EMDR with someone, things are gonna move. And when you add some ketamine to that, things really move like,

very rapidly. And so I have people that are doing like an, what I might call, yeah, like an intensive series, right? Where every Friday we meet for two hours and we just go straight into it. We go straight into the EMDR, we add the low dose ketamine, and then we just wrap up our time when we feel like we’ve reached their goals. So that could be two months, six months, you know. ⁓

But I’m clear in the beginning that this is not an ongoing therapy, right? That this is a short-term ⁓ arrangement and that many of them have also talk therapists that they go to regularly as well. So that when we come in, we’re doing very little debrief about what’s going on. Like I make sure like anything major happened this week. How is it coming out of our last processing session? What did you notice? ⁓

but we’re doing like close to zero problem of the day kind of ⁓ conversation. ⁓ Yeah, so I have that model, which is working intensively. So two hours for ketamine assisted EMDR minimum, and then sometimes a journey session, which is three hours minimum. And then folks just kind of coming in weekly for that for short, you know, for a handful of months. And then I have people that are doing more of an, ⁓ like a package where

It’s almost like a day retreat, right? So we’re, ⁓ right now I’ve kind of landed on 12 hours being a really nice number of hours to start with as a package. And what the 12 hours can look like is Monday, Wednesday, Friday for two weeks, we meet two to three hours, or it can look like three, four hour sessions. ⁓

So just kind of looking at the 12 hours I have found is a really good amount of time to see some significant results. And depending on ⁓ if they’re doing this over the course of three days or two weeks, ⁓ we map out together, we develop the treatment plan together around ⁓ incorporating psychedelic dosing experiences, ⁓ straight EMDR.

EMDR with lytosketamine and integration sessions. So I have a six day intensive coming up and we’re starting with a journey to kind of open things up to kind of what I like to say, shape the snow globe. It kind of opens the mind a bit and introduces some glutinase glutamate for neuroplasticity.

Amanda (25:01)
Hehehe

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (25:11)
helps people to find more of that self energy and connection. Next, we’re doing a low dose ketamine assisted EMDR session, ⁓ followed by another ketamine assisted EMDR session, and then doing a journey dose. we sort of, sometimes there’s in a series of and do like an alternating thing. ⁓ But we come up with that together in accordance to.

what feels safe and comfortable for the client.

Amanda (25:45)
Yeah, I think that’s really huge too is, you know, a lot of what you said is like, I’m still playing with it. I’m still figuring out what exactly works. And that’s like, I think another thing therapists overthink too much when it comes to the intensives and it’s so easy to do. I think it’s mostly related to our money mindset stuff. If we really want to feel like we have the best package available so we can charge these premium rates and the client feels comfortable and confident and we feel confident, but like,

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (25:52)
Yeah, I am.

Amanda (26:14)
you don’t actually have to have every detail nailed down and have this one formal intensive offering. Like you’re learning a lot from your experiences and you’re collaborating with your clients on, what do you want to do? And let’s make a package together based off of that, as opposed to, I remember you and I were trying to create almost like a decision tree of like, if you want to start here, then these are your two options or here, these are your options. But that’s, that’s almost way too complicated and

It’s too limiting, like… ⁓

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (26:43)
I tried really hard to get just

a single package. And I guess what I landed on is a single package, but the package is just number of hours. And I know that within those 12 hours, what the options are for clinically. And we go over that together. And there’s so much to consider with intensives in terms of capacity for the client, ⁓

Amanda (26:53)
Yeah.

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (27:12)
in terms of like, yeah, just so many different factors and what kind of trauma they’re coming in with, right? ⁓ And how new they are to psychedelics, right? ⁓ So I think I was trying to force a particular program when I knew that I had to be clinically attuned and it didn’t quite feel clinically attuned, which is why I never followed through with like, this is the exact protocol because

It was just not clinically attuned. So I landed on a package. The package is just 12 hours. And then, and I have in my mind what that can look like. And we go over that together in our intake session.

Amanda (27:47)
Exactly.

Yeah, yeah, because again, it’s, it’s kind of like a compromise between like, there’s some structure, the sense of everyone’s getting the same amount of hours, but what your specific plan is going to be is something we agree upon, which gives you both flexibility. And it gives the client, I think, a higher sense of, like control and autonomy that they’re, they’re building this with you. And it’s not just like, well, Tiffany says this is how it goes. So like, that must be how it goes. And like,

I’m sure you know your stuff and you have reasons for why you recommend what actually happens in those 12 hours. for a client to feel a part of that, I think is also part of what they are investing in. And it’s super reparative for those who are our ideal clients, you know, have CPTSD or are also highly sensitive people. Like, wow, I get to design my therapy experience. Like that’s also very different and it feels good.

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (28:54)
also realized too, like, it’s customizable, but what is happening inside that customizable container is only a handful of things. We’re gonna look at your goals immediately. We’re gonna set.

your intentions in a very focused way. Like this is very, very focused therapy. So you’re going to know what we’re working on the whole time. And you’re going to know why we’re doing what we’re doing in service of those goals the whole time. And we know we’re going to be doing EMDR and we know we’re going to be incorporating ketamine in some way. So there’s actually a lot that is very clear and by the

Amanda (29:21)
You

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (29:39)
By the end of the first session, which is basically an intake preparation session, we’ve already mapped out what each day looks like. So then from there, there is a lot of clarity around, it’s not coming into session surprised that you’re having a journey, right? We’ve put it on the calendar.

Amanda (29:56)
Yeah.

Yes. Yeah. So I know another question I have, and probably some listeners are thinking of too. I have personally done ketamine assisted therapy with my therapist. She does a lot more IFS work. So it’s been more like we do the dosing session on one day and then we do some IFS work and integration on another day. But I do it completely virtually because I’m in Washington and she’s in Oregon. So what are your thoughts? What’s your experience on?

the difference of these types of intensives when they’re done virtually or in person.

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (30:33)
Hmm, yeah. So I switch to entirely in person. I do ⁓ consultations virtually. I’ll do a very occasional just like follow up one hour if someone needs something, right? But I’m doing all of my really, you know, intensive work in person. And I think really primarily that was a choice for me. ⁓

kind of what we were talking about earlier around dropping in. ⁓ There’s something about being in the room together. And I’m looking around, I have this really beautiful new office that feels like a living room. And like, you know, I take my shoes off, they take their shoes off. We’ve got like our supplies around or, you know, we’ve got tea. And so it does have a little bit of that sort of retreat.

energy where we’re in like this sort of sacred space. ⁓ So I really enjoy that for myself. And I find that for clients, it is just another thing that helps to take away any distractions from real life. It’s kind of like going to your peaceful place. It’s like we’re removing you from your desk, right? So just another layer of like,

Amanda (31:49)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (31:57)
Yeah, so that’s why I choose to do it in person. I think it’s doable online. A lot of people do it. It’s just my preference.

Amanda (32:09)
Yeah, which I think is the important part. And obviously, the things that my therapist has to set up and think about is just a little different because she’s not in the room with me. like someone has to be home while I am, you know, taking the dose. ⁓ She has to give a little bit more education in the person she’s doing, maybe a little. I don’t think it’s more screening, but like a different type of screening, because, yeah, she’s not there to, you know, provide her own arms and support for different things. But it’s not that you can’t do it. It’s just.

What’s your preference and how do you want to do this work? so for you, the having a be in person actually helps you be in the experience more with your clients.

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (32:50)
I really do feel like I’m in the experience of it. It just, I don’t know, a little bit of vicarious healing. Yeah. You know, watching people smile and like experience relief and access their resources. Yeah. I really feel like I can, I get something from that. Yeah.

Amanda (32:53)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I think that’s huge even just to like hear and see you talk about that multiple times so far on this episode of like how you get, you get dopamine hits and you feel good and you feel some amount of healing doing this work instead of, you know, a lot of trauma therapists can feel like the work is so heavy and it’s so hard. And like, it’s not that it’s not hard at times, but you’re actually experiencing so much joy from this work that you’re doing.

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (33:19)
Thank

Yeah, when I tell regular folk that I’m a trauma therapist, they always go, Or like, bless you for doing that difficult work, right? It must be a lot, you know. And I haven’t quite figured out how to respond in real time yet. ⁓ Yes, it is important, difficult work. And I don’t find it.

to be harming me in any way, right? I actually find it to be the opposite because I’m experiencing real healing.

Amanda (34:17)
Yeah. Coming back to your co-regulation piece, you said earlier of not just, you you working on business, being in the room and co-legulating around like, yeah, learning business stuff is hard, but to actually also have your clients help heal different parts of you. Right? Like that’s, that’s huge. And I don’t think a lot of people, when we get too stuck in the like, I have to fix it mode or there’s a certain type of thing I have to do. Like, I think that is.

part of the therapist experience that I’ve heard for those who do CAP work is like, it feels almost odd because you’re not intervening quote unquote, like you’re not like, well, here’s this skill and now try this thing. Like a lot of what you’re offering is your presence, but like that doesn’t make it less valuable to like not have all these skills and things that you’re doing. And to this piece around burnout, like you have to actually be

present and like your nervous system has to be good in order to offer a good nervous system to your clients. And then it’s just all this really fun, like interpersonal neurobiology stuff around how we’re both co-regulating and supporting one another. And I think that’s just beautiful. And not a lot of therapists get to actually experience that when they’re not doing something in a way that works for them.

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (35:23)
Yeah.

Yeah, it reminds me of sort of, CAP and EMDR work really well together for a number of reasons, but one thing that really kind of makes me, I don’t know, just like it’s a fun fact that makes me happy is the modalities are actually quite similar in that there’s not a ton of intervention. Which for someone who write is like a quieter soul, right? And,

Amanda (35:55)
Yeah.

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (36:02)
is much more about attuned presence. don’t want to, like I literally don’t want to fix people. That’s not my, you know, I, of course I want to help. That’s like, I’m in this field, right? That’s, do, there’s a part of me that does want to heal people. That’s exactly why I do the work. But I’m not a fixer. I’ve never been a fixer. I’m not a person that people go to to fix things. ⁓ That’s not my personality.

Amanda (36:09)
Yes.

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (36:31)
I will be with you in a hard time. And I feel like CAP is very obvious when you’re just doing a journey. Like I’m just sitting there, right? Like attuning to you, being there for you. But EMDR is similar too, right? You’re setting up the memory and then they’re going inside and their brain is doing 95 % of what’s happening, right? You might do an interweave, right?

Mostly you’re setting it up being a ⁓ source for co-regulation and like a container and sort of prompting and guiding, but like from a very hands-off kind of way, right? And then helping with the integration, it’s the same in EMDR. And ⁓ my nervous system loves that, that I get to help people heal themselves in a way.

Amanda (37:27)
Yeah.

Again, it just sounds like you’ve been very intentional for a while around building a practice that supports you holistically as well as helps get your clients some really cool results and faster than they probably would have even imagined, which is why they’re coming to you because you have these two really cool, really innovative modalities that you’re trained in and you’re combining them, which it sounds like is also a very niche and kind of new thing that a lot of, you know, either…

CAP trained therapists or EMDR therapists don’t even know it’s an option to combine them. And you are actually putting together some free resources about teaching people how to do that. for anyone who is listening to this episode, how are you supporting therapists with this right now so that they can also build a practice that gives them some dopamine hits?

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (38:22)
I love that. Yes.

So I provide consultation, general consultation for on this topic, whether you’re interested in the business side of like, how do you set up an intensive practice? ⁓ How do I get trained in CAP? How do I integrate CAP with EMDR and then into the more clinical realm of that integration as well as ⁓

MDRIA approved consultation coming very soon. So if there’s anything in this realm that you’re interested in, I provide one-on-one consultation. And then I am launching a course very soon that is basically an introduction to how to do this. ⁓ So basically the initial steps of what to do if you’re an EMDR therapist and you want, you’re thinking about adding CAP.

because I know it can be kind of over, it’s a psychedelic medicine. It’s really different than what we’re used to working with. And I think it can be a little overwhelming or confusing or intimidating. ⁓ And folks might not wanna just go ahead and sign up for like a psychedelic assisted therapy program. So my initial mini course is just that initial starting step of what is CAP? Why is it?

a very good complimentary ⁓ medicine for EMDR? What are the basic ways to work with CAP and EMDR? ⁓ What kind of business model best supports that? And just the next steps of if you do wanna pursue this, what those next steps could be, including consultation with me for people that do sign up for my course.

and complete it, you’ll get 50 % off of a consultation pack of five. So yeah, that’s why I’m off.

Amanda (40:24)
Yeah, I think that’s awesome and it is so needed and I think it’s for the therapist where, know, occasionally I’m still guilty of this myself, but the therapist with shiny object syndrome of like, oh, this cap thing sounds amazing. Let me just go and pull up the page and sign up for a $2,000 plus training. Like it’s very easy to do that. But like you said, it may not be for everyone. So even figuring out is this actually for you? Are you aware of everything that goes into it?

we should have informed consent about even the things we are getting trained in. So you’re helping people to just slow down, really get a little bit more information. And then if they move forward with yes, then you want to help them with building that out.

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (41:05)
Absolutely, and I have some free resources that will be linked I believe in this podcast so you don’t have to spend any money at all and also free webinar on June 11th. Again, don’t have to spend any money at all. And then my course, if you do decide that you like the way you’ve seen so far is going to be under a hundred dollars initially in my initial launch. So pretty low investment for a really good package of information about ketamine assisted EMDR.

what CAF can look like for EMDR therapists, especially those that are wanting to do private pay intensive therapy.

Amanda (41:45)
You have a wealth of both information as well as again, just like the experience that you bring into this. So anyone who is listening and is just loving hearing the energy that Tiffany has around what she’s built out, definitely go check out her free resources and support her in that way and reach out if you want to learn more. But thank you so much for everything you shared today, Tiffany. Is there also a best way for people to get in contact with you? I know you literally just said like, I’m not super active on social media, but you are on social media, so.

Where do you want people to connect and maybe ask any questions?

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (42:16)
Yeah, I’m on social media at EMDR with Tiffany and while I’m not always posting, I am kind of chronically on it. So you will reach me there. And yeah, so that’s the best way. EMDR with Tiffany on Instagram. My website will be linked in the show notes. So you can also find me there and book a consultation or yeah, check out my resources.

Amanda (42:41)
Yes, we’ll put all that information in the show notes and thanks again for being on today and I’m sure you and I will chat more soon.

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (42:48)
Thanks so much for everything that you’ve done to support this project.

Amanda (42:52)
Yeah, so excited to see everything that you got growing both in your therapy practice and now in offering support to other therapists. Thanks, Tiffany.

Tiffany Paul, LCSW (43:01)
Thanks, Amanda.